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Need help with water chemistry

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Forum Name: Reef Chemistry
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Topic: Need help with water chemistry
Posted By: bigfishtoo
Subject: Need help with water chemistry
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 4:25pm
Hello, need some advice on my system, I have 120 gallon main tank with two overflows and one return and a 40 gallon sump with some caulerpa. I have two 175watt and 4 110 vho lighting, the 175 are 14,000k and vho 2 are actinic & 2 are 10000k. Have large skimmer in sump and a quiet one 4000 pump for return to main tank. Have two koralia pumps inside one on each side of tank. My lights are one 9 hours and sump light on 24/7 with 55 watt 6500 bulb. I use ro/di water only, here are my water specs.

Calcium 355ppm
Alk 4mg/l or 11.2 dkh
Salinity 1.025
Temp 76'
PH 8.2
Ammonia 0
Phosphate 0.01
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10

Now my problem is very time a put a anemone in tank it dies in one week, but my other corals are doing fine, leather corals, yellow polyps, duncan coral, mushrooms, some others.

Please can someone tell me what I'm doing wrong and need to fix. If you want pics I can send...

Thanks Les



Replies:
Posted By: SGH360
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 5:53pm
how do you acclimate your anemone?

does it wander off then it dies off?
 
have you seen anything bothering the anemone? Your parameters are fine . 

when you purchase your anemone do you see it healthy?

How long does it take to reach LFS to your house?

Pics would also help if you need any help upload your pics to photobucket copy the IMG link and paste it.

Do you see the anemone melt?

 Do you acclimate your anemone to the lights?


Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 6:20pm
I agree the water parameters are fine and the lighting sounds adequate to me, so we need some more information on the anemone and your tank itself. What other livestock do you have in the tank? I would be particularly interested in how you are acclimating the anemone and how it behaves in the first couple days after introducing it to the tank. Anemones will usually hide for a little while and then roam around till they find a spot that they like. A full tank shot would also help.

-------------
Burt

An equal opportunity reefer,
I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping.
[email protected]


Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 6:48pm
I also think its an acclimation issue. Your Ca is a little low and your Alk is a little high but they are not out of range. Definitely not for a anemone. Also personally I like my temp at 78-80. I have come to the conclusion that might just be a preference thing though. With that said what type of species have you tried some are definitely hardier than others.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 7:19pm
It sounds like you know what you are doing, and I'll bet that includes acclimation too. Anemones are very hardy. I'll bet it's the tank itself. Some combination's of organisms just seem to make trouble for other organisms. What kind of anemones and how many?

Yes, pics please, especially a full tank pic

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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 7:37pm
Hello, I used the drip system for two hours driping into a bucket with anemone. Yes the anemone moved around and hide in the rock at bottom of tank. I didnt see anything bothering it, yes it was healthy looking, it takes four hours to travel home from the aqaurium store. bought it on january 28 and it melted away today. Put anemone in tank with all the lights off, until next day and ran only the vho, next day turned all the lights on.

Here is list of livestock---
1- black sailfin blenny
1- engineer goby 10" long
2- tomato clownfish
2- yellow damels
1- purple dottyback
1- black & white butterfly fish
1- green serpent sea star
50-turbo snails and other snails
I hope this will get some help to solve my problem I would love to have anemones in my tank, but at $80 each hard to have until problem is solved. I will try and take some pics of tank and post.

Thanks Les


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 7:47pm
Since you live so far from the LFS, you might consider transporting things differently than just in a bag of water. We can help you devise a method.

$80 Shocked  What kind of anemone?

What about the livestock that have a bigger impact on an anemone, like coral, LR and LS? And is there a Refugium on this tank? What kind of algae in the Refugium?
Pics of everything would really help here. Smile



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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 08 2011 at 8:31pm
The anemone was a rose anemone,40 gallon sump with some caulerpa. 70lbs of live rock in main tank with a 4 inch sand bed.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 09 2011 at 7:40pm
I doubt it was anything you did wrong.
I used to have a job that sent me often to the mines at Carlin.
Since you evidently drive to SLC (or Reno?)to buy stuff, I suggest you get a home grown anemone next time. There must be at least 10 hobbyists here in SLC that have a field of cloned GBTA's and RBTA's (Green and Red Bubble Tip Anemones) in their tanks. Among friends here they usually sell for ~$30. 

The transport is as simple as a bucket 1/2 full of your tank water with a 1/2" layer of your LS, a peice of LR and some of that Caulerpa. The water is kept moving and aerated with a small air pump plugged into a power inverter which are only ~$30 the last time I saw one at Walmart. If you set up the bucket a few days before the trip, moving the LS and LR into the bucket submerged there will be little pollution to deal with and leaving the bucket open will allow enough light in to help the algae eat any N compounds. Place the bucket on the seat with you or on the floor so that it can be kept at least above 65 degrees. No need for a heater.

When you get the anemone, coral and/or fish, consider the bucket as your aquarium, which it is sort of. Acclimate them to the bucket by mixing a little water in the bags or by using another container the way I suggest in the Tips section of the Reefkeeping Tips below. Look in the tip "Secrets of adding new fish, fish training and the Miracle of Garlic Oil" I believe somewhere in there is where we discuss that a simple quick acclimation is generally best. If the bucket water is a bit colder than the bag, just let the bag sit for a while to slowly reach closer to the bucket temperature. More stress occurs when animals are set into colder water than when they are placed in warmer water.

Let us know.




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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 6:34pm
Here are some picture of my tank, i hope they turn out, first time sending pics. Please let me know. sorry if not that clear.







Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 7:03pm
Well one thing comes to mind and that's the huge Cinnamon clown. I had a large maroon clown that nearly killed my RBTA because it was to aggressive with it when hosting. The RBTA started out about the size of a softball and was only about the size of a golf ball before I took it out of the tank. It continued to shrink but is starting to make a comeback but it's only about the size of a quarter now.

-------------
Burt

An equal opportunity reefer,
I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping.
[email protected]


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 8:22pm
I never seen clown picking on anemone, but large one is the female and smaller one is a male. If this is the case I will give them away.


Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 8:25pm
My clown wasn't really picking on it, more like loved it to death. Do the cinnamons host in the anemone. If not that's probably not the cause.

-------------
Burt

An equal opportunity reefer,
I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping.
[email protected]


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 8:41pm
Hello Burt,
No the anemone was to small and never seen clowns around anemone when lights were on.


Posted By: PDoug
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 11:14pm
I would place my bet on chemical warfare are you running carbon to soak up toxins? I have always had issues with leathers and my other corals

-------------
(307)679-7898 Phillip Douglass 75 Gallon Reef Tank


Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 11:22pm
Good point. I haven't had any problems with leathers and anemones but then I don't have nearly as many and I do run carbon. A small anemone could be overpowered by all that cabbage leather.

-------------
Burt

An equal opportunity reefer,
I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping.
[email protected]


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 11:26pm
Hello Doug,
Yes I hace a small filter bag with some carbon in it next to my skimmer in sump, maybe 3 cups of carbon total. I change it out every month with new carbon. Is this wrong to use? let me know.

thanks Les


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 10 2011 at 11:41pm
The anemone never came close to the cabbage leather corals, it was below them close to bottom. would a engineer goby eat anemone or tear it apart. I thought all these fish would be safe to have anemones in the same tank. boy I wish I had someone close bye to come by and look at set up. Need all the advise I can get, this site is the best for getting great advise from, please keep up the good work & giving advise.

Thanks Les

thanks Les


Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: February 11 2011 at 12:34am
IMO I think 2 hours is to long of a acclimation period for a anemone. Especially after a 4 hour drive.


Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: February 11 2011 at 9:45am
Hi Les,
 
Actually the anemone doesn't have to come into contact with the leather for there to be an issue. Leathers, as well as most soft corals, excrete toxins as a method of defense and to claim their space on the reef. In the ocean they are dissipated quickly but in our tanks they can build up and become toxic to some species. With as many cabbage leathers as you have it is very important to run ample carbon to remove the toxins as well as doing frequent water changes. Do a search on Soft Coral Toxins or Leather Coral Toxins for more information. Here is a link I found in a quick search. http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120934 - http://www.ultimatereef.net/forums/showthread.php?t=120934  There is plenty more infor available on this subject.
 
If you aren't running carbon the level of toxins may have been sufficient to affect the anemone before you ever added the first one. Here is what I would do before trying another anemone.
 
1. Put a pound of carbon in a media reactor, canister filter or even just a filter bag placed in a high flow section of the sump. The more water that can pass through the carbon the better. Run this for 30 days.
 
2. Do a large water change, at least 25% and replace the carbon. After 1 week add the anemone.
 
3. You can probably cut back to 1/2 pound of carbon changed monthly after that.


-------------
Burt

An equal opportunity reefer,
I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping.
[email protected]


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 11:51am
bigfishtoo pm'd me yesterday:

I have tried all I know how to get my nitrates down, fighting the red slime and I have done water changes, clean skimmer, replace light bulbs, use carbon, shut lights off for three days, my cheato will not grow and i have two 65 watt 6500k light on refugium. You can see from my pictures of my set up. I tested all my water and all is good but nitrate is 25 to 30. I can even keep snails alive. I removed all the live rock and cleaned off red slime and cleaned glass and now its back. Please can you help get this gone, what do i need to buy or do. No one around here has any clues. I live in Elko Nevada, and my pictures of my tank are under reef chemistry, page two, topic need help with water chemistry. I took a lot of cabbage coral out as requested. Please any help would be great.

-------------
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 11:54am
How many snails?
What did you do with the Cabbage Leather?
How much area does the cyano (red slime) cover?
What else has happened since the anemone?


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 4:17pm
Well I had over 20 turbos and 100 ceriths and 20 bubble bee snails, I gave the extra cabbage coral to friends. The red slime is all over everything, nothing else has happened since I lost the anemone.

Tank is 48"x24"x24" 120 gallons

Lights are four 110watt vhos with 2-actinic white & 2-actinic blue and 2 175watt 14,000k halides.

Have two koralia 3 and 1 aquaclear 901 in main tank for water movement, plus have the return pump a quiet one 4000.

Have a octo 200 skimmer in sump, bag of carbon and a bag of phosguard and I use oceanic natural sea salt mix. I have some cheato and some crushed coral, about 2 inches in sump, last night I removed all the crushed coral and cleaned all the muck out and put the algae back in with some live rock.

So if anyone can help I would be very greatfull, do I need some other reactor or what, please help.
You can see the pictures above of tank and sump.

Les


Posted By: dc
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 5:11pm
how old are your blubs? also you could try chem pure (NOT clean) it removes metals. alot of people think red slime is from nitrates i disagree i feel it can help but i have gotten it in my tank with less than 5 nitrate.


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 6:02pm
My bulbs are almost new and i have tried red slime remover in little bottle powder formula.


Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 6:27pm
Originally posted by dc dc wrote:

how old are your blubs? also you could try chem pure (NOT clean) it removes metals. alot of people think red slime is from nitrates i disagree i feel it can help but i have gotten it in my tank with less than 5 nitrate.

This can be the case sometimes, there are many different strains of cyanobacteria most of them metabolize different things. However in most cases test for nitrates will come back low due to the fact that the cyanobacteria is consuming it as it is produced.


-------------
Steve
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef
Currently:
120G Wavefront Mixed
29G Seahorse & Softies
Running ReefAngel Plus x2
435-8


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 16 2011 at 7:35pm
FWIW, I don't see a dirty Refugium. I'm afraid that messing with it may only cause more of the problem you are trying to fix.

I would like to know:
How did you go about cleaning the Refugium sand?
Are you vacuuming the sand in the display?
How long has the rock been in that position?
I also see hair algae. How long has that been growing. Is it increasing?
What color is the Phosguard? White, tan or brown?
What fish are in the tank?
How much of what type of food do you feed?

Red Slime Remover is just prolonging the problem. Try to resist the temptation to use it. We will help you get to the root of the problem so you don't have to use chemicals any more.
Sorry for all the questions. Embarrassed


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 12:52am
Well all I did was pick out any dead plant materials, refugium had 2 inches of crushed coral. display I use clear pipe with vacuum from hose to clean sand. The rock has been in tank for over two years now. The hair algea started the same time red slime started. I change my phosguard when it turns tan in color as per instructions maybe to soon.

List of fish;
1- engineer goby 10" long
2- tomato clownfish
2- yellow damels
1- purple dottyback
1- black & white butterfly fish

My engineer goby is forever digging the sand bed, moving the sand out from under the rocks, thought this is ok--maybe not?

I feed my fish frozen mysis shrimp, krill, brine shrimp, julian seaweed, I dont feed all this at once I rotate feeding two cubes after I defrost and wash food with plain water from sink and then feed fish. The seaweed I attach 1/2 sheet to a clip once a week.

Could it be my engineer goby making all this problem stiring and moving the sand around.

Thanks...


Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 9:17am
Hi Les,

Sorry to hear you're now battling Cyano. I had a similar issue last year. The red slime started building up almost immediately after cleaning the tank. I tried blasting it with a turkey baster, reducing feeding and light cycles, and most of the other suggestions in the above posts. Nothing seemed to help. In my case the red slime looked like a stringy mess and had some bubbles mixed in with it when I allowed it to sit for a couple days without touching it. I ultimately lost several SPS corals and was ready to give up. 

I was in the process of moving so the tanks weren't getting as much attention as they should. I eventually tracked down the issue to a white eggcrate that I was using in my frag tank both as racks for corals and to build a plenum. I removed the white eggcrate frag racks and within a few days saw a marked improvement. Apparently some of the white eggcrate can leach phosphates into the system. My experience is that cyano is more tied to phosphate than nitrate and that the water levels will test close to 0 phosphate because the cyano is eating it up as fast as it is produced. 

Shortly after this incident I had to move and set up a new system with about 120 gallons of water volume. The new frag system is built from stock tanks because of their large volume and low height. I have a 50 gallon bare bottom frag tank, a 50 gallon refugium with 4 to 6" DSB over 70% of the bottom, a 20 gallon skimmer section and a 28 gallon Nano all plumbed together. Things were going fine for a couple months and then the red slime started to appear again in the refugium. This time I added Cheato and Caulerpa to the refugium and saw no decrease in the cyano.

I had been looking into bio pellets to increase the processing of nitrate and phosphates. I got a Two Little Fishies Phosban reactor and some biopellets form Bulk Reef Supply. I set up the reactor and within a couple weeks there was no sign of cyano and it hasn't been back since. Everything is doing great now. One thing I did in addition to adding the biopellets was to add some RN Bacteria. It was suggested that the addition of bacteria to the system would speed up the colonization of the reactor and I had some RN Bacteria (used for the Hiatt System) on hand so I added it to my system. 

Overall I am very happy with the biopellets and it may be worth a try in your system. You don't have to dose a bacteria supplement as the pellets will colonize with bacteria on their own but the literature on BRS suggests that it will take 4 to 8 weeks for the filter to become established and dosing bacteria like ZeoBack can speed up the process.

Good luck with your battle. I know from experience that this can be frustrating.

Oh also with regard to the engineer goby, If he is constantly stirring a majority of the sand bed it may prevent the sand bed from doing its job properly. This is because anaerobic bacteria found deep in the sand bed cannot become established. This bacteria is responsible for processing nitrate to nitrogen and keeping nitrates low. 


-------------
Burt

An equal opportunity reefer,
I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping.
[email protected]


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:09pm
Ok thanks I will order a reactor and biopellets from Bulk Reef Supply today. Can anyone see anything wrong with my piping and powerheads, do I need to change any thing. Please let me know.

Thanks


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 5:58pm
How did you go about cleaning the Refugium sand?
Well all I did was pick out any dead plant materials, refugium had 2 inches of crushed coral.
Okay, it sounded like you took out the crushed coral and rinsed it. Is that what you did?

Are you vacuuming the sand in the display?
I use clear pipe with vacuum from hose to clean sand.
Vacuuming the sand in a reef tank is best if it limited to the top 1/2" of sand only once in a while. Engineer Gobies are tough on sand beds. This is, I believe, the major reason for the algae problem. If you want to keep the Goby, we can work around it and probably do it without any added expense. Water changes? How much how often?

How long has the rock been in that position?
The rock has been in tank for over two years now.
In usual circumstances a more open sand bed improves filtration. Don't change it right now, because that could cause more problems that you don't need right now. Put it on a list to do later.

I also see hair algae. How long has that been growing. Is it increasing?
The hair algae started the same time red slime started.
That what I expected. The tank had been doing it's best to process the waste but once the Algae got going it all got out of control. We have all been there. Have you read my sad story?
http://www.garf.org/ugly.html - http://www.garf.org/ugly.html

What color is the Phosguard? White, tan or brown?
I change my phosguard when it turns tan in color as per instructions maybe to soon.
You can let it get a lot darker, but it's not a big deal. The Phosphate is not the major cause of the algae problem.

List of fish;
1- engineer goby 10" long
2- tomato clownfish
2- yellow damels
1- purple dottyback
1- black & white butterfly fish

My engineer goby is forever digging the sand bed, moving the sand out from under the rocks, thought this is ok--maybe not?

Yes that's part of the problem, but we can work around it. The bug eating Goby and Dottyback are eating any algae eating bugs they can find. This sets the tank up for an algae problem. Don't feel bad. We all had to learn this and most of us including me, learned it the hard way. I killed $1000 worth of animals in my first 18 months of keeping a reef tank.

How much of what type of food do you feed?
I feed my fish frozen mysis shrimp, krill, brine shrimp, julian seaweed, I dont feed all this at once I rotate feeding two cubes after I defrost and wash food with plain water from sink and then feed fish. The seaweed I attach 1/2 sheet to a clip once a week.
Do they eat the Seaweed? How often and how much of the shrimp at each feeding?


-------------
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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 6:35pm
Mark,

Yes I took all the crushed coral out of my refugium, I though it was the reason for my high nitrates, when I cleaned it out it was full of brown smelly matieral, I installed some live rock and tied some caulerpa to to the rocks and throwed the cheato whats left back in refugium. I also installed a maxi jet 1200 in sump for more water movement. This might have been a mistake on my part at this time.

On the vacuuming the sand bed your right, the gobie has dug almost all the sand out from under the live rocks and piles it up next to glass, I'v had to push it back under the rocks when I can, for this reason I going to give the goby away. Back to water changes, I change about 20% every two weeks with ro/di water.

What should I replace the goby with (herbivores)?

The butterfly is eating the seaweed, I feed 1/2 sheet once a week and what butterfly leaves the snails consume the rest overnight. Now for feeding I was taking one mysis shrimp and one krill frozen cubes and running them under water until defosted and them I feed a pinch at a time until they eat all the food, this might be my downfall on over feeding.

So please let me know whats next, I will loose the goby and restack live rock to open more area for the sand bed to improve filtration.

Thanks..


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 7:30pm
I think that cleaning out the Refugium will help in the long run, but usually that kind of disturbance causes a temporary increase in pollution. I would turn on the refugium light 24 hours a day for 3-4 days to help eat up the pollution. More flow within the Refugium is good because algae grows better in faster water. More flow through the Refugium would also help, because more "dirty" water passes over the algae to feed it more and faster.

The hobby in general doesn't seem to realize this, but new saltwater actually helps algae grow. 10% per month is plenty of new water for today's reef aquariums. Part of the reason the hobby doesn't realize it is because in the past, we did water changes to reduce pollution, mostly Nitrite and Nitrate pollution. Now that we have developed good biological filtration processes, like algae, LS, LR and even LW, we don't have to depend on water changes so much anymore. But the tradition dies hard. Fewer and smaller water changes is good news for you. 10% per month is going to reduce the amount of time and money that's going into the tank. Thumbs Up

Do you need ideas on easy ways to catch the Goby? Yes, snails is a very replacement at this time. Later when the algae is decreasing, if there are so many snails that they are too hungry and out all day, they can be traded to someone else. Will you be coming to Salt Lake to get snails?

I would cut the Nori (Seaweed) to only as much as is eaten in 10 minutes. The extra is actually adding to the Cyano algae problem.
I can't say for sure that you are overfeeding, but in general most hobbyists I meet are overfeeding. It's easier to understand feeding if you realize that in the wild fish eat anytime they can and will eat until their bellies are about to pop. They never know when their next meal will be. In our tanks we have to exercise some control or we would be constantly dealing with massive pollution.
Is that two cubes/day? Can you cut back to one cube a day? Don't bother about rinsing it, just feed the entire cube. The different particle sizes in the food actually feed all different kinds of animals in the reef. I agree with feeding slowly so that they get it and less falls to the bottom uneaten. Skip a day of feeding each week. This reduces pollution and causes some of those fish to eat some algae.Thumbs Up


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 17 2011 at 9:03pm
Thanks for all the information, I will catch the goby tomorrow and go from there. I will try to make a trip to SLC soon for snails, unless you know anyone who would ship some to my location. I will change my feeding habit and post some new pics later on to show my progress.

Again thanks to all, this is a great site to get information, please keep it going.


Posted By: dc
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 12:08am
1 thing i missed you say you are using Phosguard. did you know that you are suppost to change it every 3-4 days?(seachem anyway)


Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 12:12am
Of course I would always prefer someone to buy from our local reefers but if you cant make it all the way to slc ( its a long drive from Elko) reefcleaners.org is an awesome place to get a clean up crew snails/ crabs for cheap. John Maloney is a super nice guy. They have invert packages that ship for free. Also I know a 10% off coupon code PM me if you want it.

http://reefcleaners.org/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=20&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=34 - http://reefcleaners.org/index.php?page=shop.browse&category_id=20&option=com_virtuemart&Itemid=34


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 5:30pm
Chad here on this MB lives in West Valley City and sells Snails and Hermits for about 50 cents each. It's the best value if you are coming to SLC anyway.

Phosguard is a chemical called Aluminum Hydroxide. It attracts Phosphate and some Silicate. Completely exhausted it is a very dark tan almost brown. The supplier would have you change it often so they can make more money.


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
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Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 18 2011 at 10:37pm
Hello Mark,
Who is MB that sell snails and hermits

Thanks


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 19 2011 at 8:57am
MB = message board/forum.
Chad is his first name and also his name on this MB.


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Posted By: Quickness
Date Posted: December 22 2011 at 3:41am

Do you have any new photos of the tank?  Just curious on how it is looking now that some time has gone by. 



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Molon Labe
Si vis pacem, para bellum


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 22 2011 at 5:27pm
I will take some and post.


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 22 2011 at 8:29pm
Please someone tell me how to download from photobucket to forum.
thanks...


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 22 2011 at 9:50pm
Ok here are some updated pictures as of Dec-22-2011 with algae problem still, after buying a clean-up crew for a 150 gallon tank two months ago and still algae problem. Wife ready to throw tank and myself out the door if I dont get this under control!!!

[IMG]


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 23 2011 at 12:29am
It's been a while since we heard from you, had no idea the problem had not been resolved, so please forgive me if I repeat something I asked before.

What are the Alk and Ca?
About how many snails are left in the tank, rough guess?
What is the lighting and it's schedule, display and Refugium?
Can we see a full tank pic and also a pic of the refugium?
If you have the pics in photobucket, what's the link?
Is the Sailfin Tang still alive?
What about the Lawnmower Blenny? How's it doing?

You can tell your wife that you are returning for help to the place that has helped 1000's of hobbyists since 1995. Also tell her that you will stick with us until she is happy with it.
Okay.
We want to know how she wants it to look? What does she like about the tank and what bothers here about it?


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 23 2011 at 3:13pm
Hello Mark,

My ALK is 9 dkh and Ca is 440ppm
I bought a reef cleaning crew in July of 141 dwarf ceriths--55 nassarius---36 florida ceriths---36 large---18 small nerites. Now there is only about 1/4 left, all others have died and most of my turbo snials have died and all my blueleg crabs are gone too.

I will take picture of hole tank and refugium and post. The fish are all doing very well, but the lawnmower blenny disappeared.

My lights are on for 8 hrs on main tank and 10 hours in my refugium.

Bought some frogspawn and hammer and most of it has died.
Thanks


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 23 2011 at 3:45pm
Ok here are the pictures you wanted,


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 25 2011 at 12:08am
Thanks, that's really good.
The pics are very helpful.
I can see several areas for improvement.

Are the Refugium lights on a reverse daylight schedule?
Is the Refugium algae growing? How fast does it double? I see what looks like just a little Caulerpa. Is there any Chaetomorpha?

Is that canister on the left holding PO4 remover media? What type? When was it last replaced? What is the PO4 level?

What is the wattage and Kelvin value of the MH's and is there any supplemental Fluorescent lighting?

Did those snails do any good at first? The next time you buy snails which should be soon, get just 50 Astrea snails and 50 Margarita snails. Just a few Hermits, maybe 15, is plenty. Don't buy any more Nasarrius snails and dwarf Cerith snails. I just noticed this offer from Arthur, copied from that other thread.
Originally posted by arthuriv arthuriv wrote:

All my hermits and snails are $0.50ea except Mexican turbos snails are $1.00ea and I deliver.

Thank you!
Arthur Klinkenberg
Reefers Anonymous
435-830-4514
Wink

By the look of that algae, at the same time the new snails are added, it will be time to reduce the light for a while. Have you read about how that is best done?
Here: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033 - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=3033
and here: http://utahreefs.com/SeaStar/wmasSeaStar02Feb.pdf - http://utahreefs.com/SeaStar/wmasSeaStar02Feb.pdf

Have you ever heard about the amazing benefit of placing those two powerheads at the back bottom corners and pointing them up to the top center water surface? You may need to cut a notch out of the base cup to make room for the post so the powerhead can be aimed up more vertically.

What does the wife like and dislike about the tank?

Merry Christmas


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 25 2011 at 2:57pm
Hello Mark,

My refugium light is on reverse my main tank, the algae does not grow hardly at all, just added some new caulerpa and some chaeto last friday.

The canister has some carbon and ROWAphos and i change it everyweek and the other canister has bioplastics media, its been in there now for 4 months. my P04 level is 0.003

My Wattage is TWO 175 watts and 14k and have four 110 watt vhos that has (1 ACTINIC WHITE) AND (2 WITH ACTINIC 03) AND (1 WITH AQUASUN)

No all those snails didn't make any difference.

Well the wifes dislikes all the algae and that I cant grow any corals that she see on forum with same tank setup.

I will move the powerheads this week. I REMOVED MY KORALIA 3'S AND INSTALLED KORALIA 4'S for more flow.

Thanks
Merry Christmas!


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 26 2011 at 11:48am
Originally posted by bigfishtoo bigfishtoo wrote:

Well the wife dislikes all the algae and that I cant grow any corals that she sees on forum with same tank setup.

Thanks
Merry Christmas!
Merry Christmas to you. The new year is going to be a happy one for your aquarium.
Okay, are you ready to get down and dirty?
Are you ready to stick with it all the way?
Are you ready to make this tank amazing?
Are you and your wife ready to love this tank?
Are you ready to show it off as a thing of beauty?

Then let's do it.Clap Clap Clap


First thing is to find a source of Astrea and Margarita snails. See the pic below to see what Margarita Snails look like. They are sometimes called Mexican Turbo. I would contact Arthur, who already lives closer to you because he is in Tooele, not SLC. Wink He is a really awesome guy. He may even be willing to meet you halfway, in Wendover. Above I suggested 50 of each snail, but the more of those snails you use, the faster the algae will disappear. If available, a few Pacific Turbo Snails and a handful of Hermits would also be helpful.

Did you and your wife read about the http://garf.org/ugly.html - Green Haired Mermaid ??
Please do.
Do you know anyone else with a reef aquarium in Elko? When the algae problem is gone, you can move some of the snails to their tanks.

Did the addition of the two canisters make any difference in the tank? What was the PO4 level before?
Right now, I need to ask you to stop changing the AC and Rowaphos media in that canister. Eventually, I'll may ask you to remove both canisters, but leave them alone for now.

Let's get the algae growing in the Refugium. Can you leave that light on 24/7. Is the water flowing through the Refugium as fast as possible? What size is the return pump?

Where did you go to get the new powerheads and algae? Did you pick up some snails at the same time?

To be perfectly frank, it's not as much the volume of flow, as it's how that flow is moving. Where are the Koralia 3's now? Please place them back in the tank for now, positioned like I said before. All the Powerheads should be down low pointing up so that the water surface is roiling fast like this:


Margarita/Mexican Turbo Snails, 1/2-1 inch



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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 26 2011 at 6:31pm
Hello Mark

Okay, are you ready to get down and dirty? YES
Are you ready to stick with it all the way? YES
Are you ready to make this tank amazing? YES
Are you and your wife ready to love this tank? YES
Are you ready to show it off as a thing of beauty? HELL YES

First thing is to find a source of Astrea and Margarita snails. I EMAILED ARTHUR AND WAITING ON RESPONSE.

Did you and your wife read about the Green Haired Mermaid?? YES WE JUST DID.

Do you know anyone else with a reef aquarium in Elko? NO
Did the addition of the two canisters make any difference in the tank?VERY LITTLE.

What was the PO4 level before? JUST A LITTLE HIGHER

Right now, I need to ask you to stop changing the AC and Rowaphos media in that canister. OK
Eventually, I'll may ask you to remove both canisters, but leave them alone for now. OK

Let's get the algae growing in the Refugium. Can you leave that light on 24/7. OK DONE

Is the water flowing through the Refugium as fast as possible? YES AND HAVE A POWERHEAD IN REFUGIUM MOVING WATER ALSO.

What size is the return pump? QUIETONE 4000 ---1017gph

Where did you go to get the new powerheads and algae? HAD POWERHEADS AND ALGAE CAME FROM TWINFALLS IDAHO PET STORE IT WAS BRIGHT GREEN AND LOOKED GREAT.

Did you pick up some snails at the same time? NO

To be perfectly frank, it's not as much the volume of flow, as it's how that flow is moving. Where are the Koralia 3's now? STILL HAVE THEM AND I PUT THE KORALIA 4’s ON BOTTOM CORNERS POINTING UP JUST LIKE YOU SAID.

Please place them back in the tank for now,   BOTH 3”S AND 4”S AT SAME TIME?

THANKS FOR ALL YOUR TIME AND ADVISE!




Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 30 2011 at 11:32pm
Yes, the more flow the better.
Please let me know when you have the snails.
Acclimation with snails depends on how they are shipped and how long they have been in transit.
As soon as the snails are added, it will be time to do the tank black out procedure.
Oh, and no water changes until further notice. Smile

btw, I'm available at the phone # below. I'm 2 hours behind you and have been up till midnight lately, so it's okay to call even if it's late.


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 31 2011 at 12:42pm
Ok, Waiting on Arthur about snails. I will install all four powerheads today.

Here is my water parameters from today,
CAL--559ppm
ALK--153ppm or 8.5dkh
PHOS-0.1ppm
NITRATE--2.5ppm
PH--8.0
NITRITE--0ppm
AMMONIA--0ppm
MAG--1050ppm

Just to let you know.

thanks....


Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: December 31 2011 at 12:59pm
Hi Les,

Your parameters look pretty good with the exception of the Magnesium Level. Try to boost it up over 1300ppm. It will make stabalizing your alk and calcium much easier and benefit everything in the tank. I like to keep mine around 1350ppm but anywhere from 1300 to 1400 is great.

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Burt

An equal opportunity reefer,
I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping.
[email protected]


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: December 31 2011 at 3:55pm
Hi Burt,

Will do thanks.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: January 01 2012 at 10:48am
The Ca is out of range, not terrible, but an indicator of something else that needs to be modified.
I agree with Burt that higher Mg will help a lot. It will do two important things regarding your tank's current situation. It will help the coral, inverts and algae better utilize Ca and Alk, plus it will discourage nuisance algae growth.

I assume you are using a salt mix which is high in Ca, right?
Do you have some Mg additive? Did you know that ordinary Epsom Salt will do the job of increasing Mg? If not, let's talk about it.

I have to leave for church right now, but if you don't mind, I think a phone conversation would really add to the fixing of this algae problem. Please call me at the number below after 3PM your time.


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: January 01 2012 at 1:41pm
I have Reef Advantage Magnesuim additive and my salt mix is H2OCEAN.


Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: January 03 2012 at 9:15pm
Hey big i have read many posts by Mark and bfessler and both are really good at this stuff, i use all their info i read and have yet to be steered wrong . Hope it comes under control soon . Im in SLC and have a few friends who are regulars in Wendover and would transport for free if u could meet them there . Pm if its needed. Tongue


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: January 04 2012 at 11:10pm
Hello,

Thanks for the info and will let you know, Hoping to make a trip to SLC soon.


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: January 16 2012 at 2:10pm
Hello Mark,

Just to let you know, when I get my snails/crabs do you want me to turn off my lights for a couple days to kill the hair algae, if so then I will redo my canopy and move the vho's apart and put the halides in the middle. Then cut canopy down so lights are closer to the water level.

Thanks


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: January 16 2012 at 2:32pm
Yes, that's a good plan.

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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 08 2012 at 4:34pm
Just received my order from Arthur (Reefers Anonymous), Let me tell you that he has the best snails and crabs I have ever seen. He does an outstanding job packaging, and taking great pride in what he does. Again Arthur thank you for going the extra mile to find me some Rose Anemones.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 09 2012 at 12:12pm
You have been on my mind the last few days. I was just about to try to contact you to see how everything was doing. I'll bet you are already noticing a difference, right, or is the tank darkened right now so the difference isn't visible yet?
Did you re-do the light fixture?


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: February 10 2012 at 12:12pm
Hello Mark,

Yes, I changed the light fixture, put 2 vho's on each side of the halide's lights and lowered all closer to the water by about 2". Yes there is a big difference with new snails and crabs, they are going to town so far.


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 03 2012 at 12:59pm
Just an update on algae problem, I took Mark Peterson advise and followed his instruction and here some pictures of tank as of April 3, 2012. Let me tell you my wife is very happy to see that old algae mess gone.

Mark Peterson thank you for all your advise and help!



Posted By: rize2
Date Posted: April 03 2012 at 1:20pm
looking great!


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 03 2012 at 1:29pm
Thanks rize2


Posted By: Akira
Date Posted: April 03 2012 at 10:43pm
Wow huge difference I'm loving it ! Did you add an anemone yet?


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: April 04 2012 at 11:29am
Yes I added a rose anemone, its on the left side in picture, next to over flow box.

Thanks


Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: April 04 2012 at 4:08pm
It is great to see such an improvement.  Congratulations to you for following through, and Mark for his expertise.  Now enjoy your tank.

Originally posted by bigfishtoo bigfishtoo wrote:

Just an update on algae problem, I took Mark Peterson advise and followed his instruction and here some pictures of tank as of April 3, 2012. Let me tell you my wife is very happy to see that old algae mess gone.

Mark Peterson thank you for all your advise and help!


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: April 06 2012 at 1:06pm
Awesome!
Great job!


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: May 04 2012 at 7:47pm
Just need some more advise, my yellow polyps are not opening up and my cabbage coral is looking real bad, its not opening up and it turned a darker color. Here are some pictures of the polpys and cabbage coral, sorry but not all that clear.

I have not changed anything and my water parameters are:
PH--8.4
NITRITE--0
NITRATE--0
PHOSPATE--.02
CALCUIM--363 added some to make it 400ppm
ALK---10.3 DKH
MAG--1050 added some to make it 1400ppm
TEMP--79
SALINITY--1.026

The mushrooms are doing just fine. So any advise would help! Maybe this is normal from time to time.

Thanks





Posted By: rufessor
Date Posted: May 08 2012 at 10:14am
Unsure if your leather and polyps are back to looking fine, but I would suspect they are.  Leather corals will "shed" their top layer of "skin" every so often for no apparent reason (I would say 2-4 times a year).  Mine gets darker looking, almost glossy, and can have no polyp extension for over a week, then the top will fall off (good thing to do is to use a turkey baster to get it off and suck it out of the water) and then its normal again for some months.  The polyps are less predictable, I used to think they would go through open and close cycles randomly when I was in a nano with less predictable chemistry (I guess)- but now in my larger tank they are pretty much always open unless a crab just walked all over them.  

Probably fine, I would change carbon after the leather sheds JUST to be sure.  
Doubly so if its a big piece.



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Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not simpler -A.E.
57 Gallon RImless build in progress check the thread before if becomes boring and just full of nice pictures of colorful coral!


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 12:45pm
Thanks rufessor,

You are right and the Leather corals are growing again and the yellow polyps are starting to open up again too. This was just very weird to see this happen and wonder why. Now if I can find out why I cant grow any hammer coral and frogspawn coral or duncan corals, that would be great. they all just die.

Thanks


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 7:07pm
The answer to that question will be revealed in time.
It's been more than a month without all that nuisance algae, of which there was a ton.
Give the tank and it's residents some time to grow into the new look, feel and smell.
Is PO4 remover being used? The level is okay now and can be handled by the algae growth.
How does the Refugium look?
How about AC? How long is it left in the system and how often is it changed? 2 weeks per month is usually sufficient. (It is possible to clean the water too much.)
Big smile


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: May 10 2012 at 8:15pm
Hello Mark,

Yes I still have some PO4 remover in my reactor and I change my AC every two weeks. The Refugium looks good with the good algea growing for the first time.

thanks..


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: May 14 2012 at 2:49pm
Now if I can find out why I cant grow any hammer coral and frogspawn coral or duncan corals, that would be great. they all just die.

Thanks


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 14 2012 at 4:23pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

The answer to that question will be revealed in time.
It's been more than a month without all that nuisance algae, of which there was a ton.
Give the tank and it's residents some time to grow into the new look, feel and smell.
Additionally, I would stop using PO4 remover for a while. I have never run it continuously. When algae is growing and then harvested from the Refugium the PO4 is being eaten and removed so there is little need for PO4 remover except maybe for a month every six months.

Though some people choose run it continuously, I also recommend AC be run for only 2 weeks per month. There are various reasons for this; too much of a good thing is not good and the risk of a fish condition called HLLE.

And finally, are the Alk, Ca and Mg levels kept fairly constant? If so, I'll bet that in about a month a frag of Euphyllia or a duncan placed in an appriate spot for flow and lighting, will do well.


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Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: May 15 2012 at 1:32pm
Hello Mark,

Ok I stop using the PO4 and removed the AC for now and will only used them for two weeks per month.

My ALK,Ca,Mg levels are fairly constant.

Will wait and see what happens now.

Thanks.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: May 16 2012 at 1:15pm
You are doing awesome. Thumbs Up

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Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
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Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: August 02 2012 at 1:59pm
Now if I can find out why I cant grow any hammer/frogspawn or duncan corals, that would be great. they all just die.
If anyone has any suggestions, please let me know. I put them on the sand bed with no luck, so moved them up to the middle and they still just die, they dont even open up very much.

Something is wrong but I dont know, all my water parameters are good. you can see by the pictures my mushrooms are doing great. Is it my lights?


Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: August 02 2012 at 2:31pm

This may not be inline with professional recommendations, but when I purchased my frogspawn I put it near the bottom of my tank for about a week.  It looked fine.  Then I moved it up where I wanted it (near the top of my tank).  I am hoping that my clowns, who hang out near the top of the tank, will use it as a host.  Frogspawn is going great in that position.  I've had it there for more than a month now.



Posted By: bigfishtoo
Date Posted: August 02 2012 at 8:19pm
Hello, I tried that also, put them on bottom and then moved them to near the top. Still they never opened up like they should have and they just wasted away. There got to be a problem.

Thanks



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