Hiatt Bashers Vent Here!
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34784
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Topic: Hiatt Bashers Vent Here!
Posted By: bfessler
Subject: Hiatt Bashers Vent Here!
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:19pm
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This thread is for Fishbot and anyone else that just feels the need to bash the Hiatt System.
Quotes by Fishbot
"I will wager $100 that you could get the same "results" of this method in an identical tank with just aragonite sand, a tiny chunk of LR to seed and a bag of carbon from good ole Wal-Mart. Thats how one should really test the validity of this system -- with a control tank."
"Ok now that I am done being amused.... I find it really sad that no one spoke up about this. I mean how many animals have needlessly died due to this scam?"
On one hand you imply that animals are needlessly dieing because of this scam and then you want to prove that the system is a scam by throwing fish in a tank with nothing but Aragonite sand and a tiny piece of live rock and Wal-Mart Carbon. I don't know anyone else who would be that Cruel.
I am sure you have never actually tried the Hiatt system but feel some primal need to trash it. Why are you so threatened by the Hiatt system? Are you afraid of loosing your credibility if it actually works? Do you think Stan and Debbie Hunter are just lying about their results saving failing systems? Did you even look at the links to their results? http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blank/bl_AJfiltration.htm - 1,000 gallon System and http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blank/bl_AJfiltrationshark.htm - 2,600 gallon system . Do you think these systems would have spontaneously fixed themselves if they simply threw in some live rock and carbon? Are you accusing me of lying about my results?
I don't think you are the protector of all things saltwater, just a nut with a desire to trash something you really know nothing about other than what you have read on some other site and are looking for a forum to preach from so here you are. Tell the world about all the fallacies of the Hiatt System right here. If you are really interested in the science behind the Hiatt system here is a link to their official website technical pages. http://www.hdltd.com/technical/t_24hour.html - http://www.hdltd.com/technical/t_24hour.html You probably won't look at it seriously but you can't say it wasn't provided for you. Just what are your credintials other than you are a hobbyest for 19 years that doesn't have a tank and wants to get back into the game? ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Replies:
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:44pm
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Hmmmm, I like discussion.... but I hate drama.
I'll go ahead and post my story here and hopefully leave it at that.
I was asked to test out the Hiatt System and to evaluate the method and products. This was back in November 2008. I was unable to complete the testing of the process. I passed the project over to a colleague at another university. I don't believe he concluded anything worth writing about.
There were two main reasons I abandoned the project. One, the stated instructions were very specific on gallons per hour, the weight of substrate, and things like that. This gave me concern because 1) I was pretty sure the tank would be successful with or without the implementation of the Hiatt system (meaning I couldn't attribute success to the procedure) and 2) if the tank for some reason wasn't successful I would have a difficult time showing that the instructions were followed to a T and were because of the method.
So that made things challenging. I didn't feel comfortable publishing results either in favor or against the system.
Now, from a personal perspective on my OPINION. I don't like the idea behind the system because it is unnatural to me. It just seems counter intuitive to the natural captive systems I've been supportive of using. It is my opinion that the method and system would work just fine. It can probably produce great results. But it isn't the design that I think hobbyists should be developing.
But opinions change as people develop new ideas.... so you never know.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 10:18pm
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Thanks for your opinion Adam. I value it and appreciate all the work you do for the club.
I am not a strict follower of the Hiatt recipe but have had good results anyway. It would be interesting to do a controlled study though I can't afford the equipment to do it. After setting up 4 tanks in 5 months my wife would shoot me if I bought any more equipment.
Here is what I would do if I had the equipment. I would use 3 identical 10 Gallon tanks with canister filters large enough to hold the required amount of Carbon set up as follows.
Tank 1 No Live Anything
Aragonite Sand, Vida Rock or LBTR and a canister filter set up with the Right Now Bacteria, PH Rock and Carbon.
Tank 2 Set up the same but with no Hiatt products just mechanical and carbon filtration.
Tank 3 Set up with Aragonite sand, Mechanical and carbon Filtration and some live rock.
Set up each tank and run for 4 hours to clear the water. Then add some hearty fish like Green Chromis to each tank. Monitor each system for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate daily and note the results. Change 10% of the water weekly.
This would show how a new setup with only mechanical and carbon filtration, a new setup with live rock and mechanical filtration and a new setup with the Hiatt system perform over say the usual time to cycle a tank say 4 to 6 weeks.
While the Hiatt system would still not be natural as you stated in your opinion it would show its ability compared to a dead sample and a traditional cycle.
Oh I would also like to have a fully cycled tank ready incase any of the fish are in danger because of the high ammonia or nitrite levels. I wouldn't want to needlessly kill any fish in the name of science. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:36pm
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Adam, So do you not like dosing bacteria products such as Brightwells MB7 or a system like ZeoVit? Just wondering
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Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 9:32am
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I don't know.
I highly believe in using live rock and live sand and that type of bacteria. I've also been studying probiotic bacteria as a food additive.
But in general terms... hmmmm... I guess I'm not big on dosing or adding bacteria from a bottle to the tank. But I don't have strong feelings or any experience with bacteria additives.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Aquatic Evolution
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 1:55pm
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Is there something new about this product? there are tons of products that make the same claims out of a bottle. If I'm missing something let me know, otherwise is sounds like the same hype that I've heard about similar products for years. As far as carbon, it's common sense that it has superior surface area to most other Bio material. That is why it makes such a great filter media. Dont forget you also need to change your carbon often, so it does'nt become Aerobic!
I with Adam, I'll dose my bacteria from Mother Natures source- Live Rock
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Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:13pm
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I don't think there is anything new about the product. I just used it to jump start my frag tank and Fishbot seemed to think I should be strung up for the infraction. I have a simple build thread going about my frag tank and the insults were getting out of hand so I started this thread so he could rant here instead of hijacking my thread. You probably notice that he hasn't taken the opportunity but at least his posts have stopped on my frag tank thread. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:36pm
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So this guy that is adding bacteria is doing the wrong thing? http://www.rimlessreef.com/ - http://www.rimlessreef.com/
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Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:40pm
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If those results are wrong, I don't want to be right. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:43pm
| AMEN Burt! |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:37pm
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If he told you he wipes his but with the filter sock would you also attribute that to his success?
"A fool (Burt) and his money are soon parted"
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Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:39pm
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Glad to see you found the thread for ranting Fishbot. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:44pm
Yes but only if he wiped his BUTT not but! Learn to spell
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Fishbot wrote:Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:53pm
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I'll sell you some used ass wipes for that nano cube then, a little cheaper than Tri Base Carbon and full of live bacteria! |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:55pm
SWEET! When are you bringing them over? FYI, I don't use Tri Base Carbon or the Hiatt System.
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Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:56pm
 You crack me up Ryan.
Hay Fishbot if you can simply open your mind enough to admit that there is room for many different ways of doing things I think we could get along. I admire everyone who keeps reef tanks and enjoy this great hobby and I am not looking for any feuds. Just because I use a system you don't like doesn't mean there is no place for it. Most everyone who has defended me here doesn't use my system and likely won't but we all share one common interest and thats reefing. For the life of me I can't understand why you are taking this whole thing so personally and spending so much time worrying about something so few people do.
Anyway I am willing to bury the hatchet if you are. Otherwise I don't think you are going to have much fun on this site. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 6:16pm
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Everyone who is defending you is also quick to point out that they do not use your system. |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 6:23pm
Yeah, it looks like Burt covered that already. Any other CSI information for us? My tank was fully cycled in 2 weeks. I got the rock from a 6 month old tank and the sand came right out of the bag. I mixed up all new water and my tank was ready to go. You can have a tank cycle pertty quickly not using the Hiatt system or using "FRESH" live rock and "FRESH" NSW. If the Hiatt System cuts down that 2 weeks to 1 day then I say go for it and so far Burt has shown that to be the case. So have I ever used the Hiatt System? No, but I am open to anything that improves the health of my fish and corals. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 7:34pm
| I belive in what might work for one might not work for the other. But to each there own. I myself have never done this style but Im always open for trying something new if it will be better for my fish and coral. But from reading both of the threads thats going on about this just makes me laugh. I remember like 10 years ago that live rock wasnt the best thing to have in your tank and now look. Things change over time somethings work better than others and some just fall on there face. You just never know it might be the new way to do things but you just never know. Only time will tell but there always has to be someone that has to try it first. Do you think that the first person in space was told dont worry everything will work just fine. I dont think so that is why everyone that goes into space wears dippers just incase they S*** there pants because something goes wrong. The same thing goes with keeping reef tanks. Everyone says that it will be just fine but in the back of your mind you know that something can go wrong. But because of the brave people that are willing to try something new is great and I just wish the best for them. But as for my feeling on it. I would like to have it take alittle more time with others trying it out that has more money than I do to test it out. But you never know here in a couple of years I just might be starting a new tank this way if it works out as great as a few people have said it is. But I guess I should stop writing about this and go back and have a beer or two. |
Posted By: thefu
Date Posted: August 20 2009 at 8:29pm
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Fishbot, please, please open up your place for the reef tour so we can all go over there and see how wonderful your setups are after all your wisdom. I would love to see how open to criticism you might be. Straight up, you are simply a troll. Somehow you have a need for the attention and this is why you have created this flame war. Oh, I have an idea thats even better...why don't you come and present at our next meeting...Adam is looking for sage reefers like yourself to enlighten us foolish noobs...the door is open...I bet the rest of us will be far more open minded and cordial with you, even if WE think your ideas are foolish. Man up already... Fu...out...
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Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 12:48am
Wow!! first time I read this post and all the drama wasn't started by me
I agree with the FU. Heaven knows that with all the tanks and the hundreds of gallons Ive had, I still don't know much about what I'm doing. I know it works for me and if this system works for him then so be it. ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: dustponds10
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 1:00am
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Wow, this is really something, I mean peopel do things different all the time. All the way down to cycling their tanks. Nobody really has a fuss about that. either using macro, deli shrimp, live rock solely, or by adding fish. I mean what is the big deal and why pick a fight? LETS TRY TO CREATE A HOSTILE ENVIRONMENT HERE ON THIS WEBSITE! If you for sure know everything about this hobby please indulge us with your brains... Just by the way you have to attack and use profanity shows some real smarts. If you dont agree that is ok but to do what you are doing is just plain stupid. ------------- 120 ASM G-3 T-5 lighting 130 frag system T-5 lighting asm G-1x |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 1:12am
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Don't forget Marks idea to pee in it to kick start the cycle!! ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 1:18am
YES! It is about time Dion got involved. I have been waiting and waiting and just when all hope was lost, Dion came to save the day! It's like being a little kid on Christmas and opening the Red Ryder BB gun
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Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 1:26am
Sorry to have taken so long. In reality if I wasn't waiting for lacquer to dry I wouldn't have stopped in....yet.... Ill be thankful when this house is done. How come all rich ass holes think they can complete a 1.5 million dollar home in under a year????? I guess the same ones that think their tanks are beautiful cause they aren't broke....... and mine looks like **** cause I am ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 8:20am
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Welp, Its time I jump in. Been reading this for awhile still amazed at this! So this is all I want to say/ask, Fishbot.... can you please post pictures of your tank?
------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 11:47am
Well I thought I better post a few pics of the animals needlessly dying in my Hiatt Systems. Sorry the pics aren't great but my wife has our better camera with her.
        http://s564.photobucket.com/albums/ss90/bfessler/August%20Tank%20Pics/ - ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: EvanB756
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 4:04pm
Wow... those animals look like they're in such misery... how do you handle looking at them every day???..... 
------------- 90gal display w/ 30gal sump. |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 5:17pm
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Those look great!
------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: jmorrell
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 3:36pm
| thats terrible!!! corals should never be that colorful/inflated! |
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 5:49pm
That is looking great Burt!
Mike -------------  |
Posted By: kay181
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 10:31pm
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burt the tanks look great!!! fishbot you been called out. i want 2 see your tanks?(it's time 2 put up or shut up) ------------- day light scares me im going back under |
Posted By: dustponds10
Date Posted: August 27 2009 at 11:35pm
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It must be the system that you are using that makes your camera take such blah pictures. I cant even believe that your camera would even snap a shot!!! ------------- 120 ASM G-3 T-5 lighting 130 frag system T-5 lighting asm G-1x |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 9:50am
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Thanks everyone for the compliments.
I haven't seen any posts on the site from Fishbot since the 20th. Hopefully these posts have shown that there are many ways of doing things and there is room for all of them in the hobby. To quote Dion, "If it works great. If it doesn't then lesson learned."
Fishbot there is still room for you here if you can learn this simple lesson and encourage your fellow reefers rather than trying to dictate what is acceptable. Certainly if you have real experience good or bad you should share it but not by belittling the product or the person using it.
You can see all sorts of success stories with almost endless variations of different systems in these pages. I think that reef keeping would be less interesting if there was only one way to do it and you had to strictly adhere to it or fail. I like trying new things and tinkering with different designs to find out what works best. In fact I get the most enjoyment out of the planning and building of a system, then watching it come together and mature. The end result, while beautiful to look at and lots of fun to show off, gets me thinking about how to improve it and I start designing my next project. It's the Design/Build part of the hobby that is so addicting. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: tropi_gal
Date Posted: August 28 2009 at 8:56pm
| omg you guys crack me up! :) |
Posted By: nwreef
Date Posted: August 29 2009 at 10:37am
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look like maybe fishbot ran and hid...... He stirred up a hornets nest, and now..... he realizes he might not be as right as rain as he thought. The one thing i have learned through all my years of doing this hobbyis, just because what you do is the old way, doesnt mean its the right way, and the only way. If it were not for new ideas, and change we wouldnt be where we are with the hobby today. Heck if it werent for new ideas and change, the world would still be flat, and we'd all still be ruled by Kings and Queens..... ------------- Chad A. 20g nano in progres Member~ A.A.A. ( Aquarium Addicts Anonomous) |
Posted By: superman1981
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 11:02am
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Wow, I"m a late comer to this thread... I hate it when I miss all the drama... I just have one question for our new friend Fishbot... Do you by any chance have an 850 gallon tank with a giant pacific octopus in it? ------------- Sure you are, you are Crappy Reef Club Member #1 -Chk4tix 6 gal nanocube 65 gal http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78639&title=tims-65-gallon-build" rel="nofollow - build thread |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 12:42pm
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I think we can all agree that if fishbot joined this month but he knows a lot about the club, that means he is on here as someone else and created a 2nd account with a new name to hide his identity. I don't like getting into the drama but seriously if you are goign to attack people at least put your name on it. Just my thoughts. Chad ------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 1:19pm
| Is there a way to see the IP addresses used for log on? |
Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 1:26pm
If you are going to be anal about spelling, you might as well be anal about punctuation too. "Yes, but only if he wiped is BUTT, not but! Learn to spell." LOL> ------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 1:29pm
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downhill, If you read all the posts, you would see that he made fun of the website. Calling them third graders and all. Then he couldn't use correct spelling either. If I would have used correct puncuation, he would have been even more confused!
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Posted By: downhill_biker
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 1:55pm
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ryan, you are right, i didn't see that. i wasn't bashing, just having some fun....lol about confusion...
------------- Make sure you post your best pictures every month in our POTM forum. |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 1:57pm
| I know you weren't bashing. LOL I too like to have fun and noticed the punctuation afterwards but was too lazy to fix it! LOL |
Posted By: jfinch
Date Posted: August 31 2009 at 2:32pm
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FWIW, I think I agree with everything Fishbot wrote (including his critique of said website), but I don't necessarily agree with how he said it. I also agree with bfessler when he said: "You can see all sorts of success stories with almost endless variations of different systems in these pages. I think that reef keeping would be less interesting if there was only one way to do it and you had to strictly adhere to it or fail." The simple fact that there are so many different successful "methods" of keeping a reef tank is because it's not really as difficult a task as most believe :). IMO, the key to all successful tanks is the amount of attention the owner pays to it, regardless of method... ------------- Jon https://www.youtube.com/channel/UC6y_EzjI_ljbIwf2n5uNzTw" rel="nofollow - What I've been doing... |