Frag Tank Hiatt Style
Printed From: Utah Reefs
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34323
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Topic: Frag Tank Hiatt Style
Posted By: bfessler
Subject: Frag Tank Hiatt Style
Date Posted: July 20 2009 at 9:35pm
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I have started 2 tanks now using the Hiatt System of filtration. My corals are now growing and I am ready to try my hand at fragging and propagating corals. The Hiatt System has generated a lot of criticism because it claims a 0 or 1 day cycle, doesn't depend on live rock or sand (although they are a plus) and claims to aerobically convert ammonia, nitrites and nitrates into free nitrogen. It also claims to be able to biologically remove phosphates from the water column and does not require a protein skimmer. I am not a biologist so I don't know how it does it I only know it seems to work. If you want to know more visit http://www.majesticreefs.com - http://www.majesticreefs.com . So back to my latest project. The Frag Tank.Objectives
1. Test the Hiatt System on a larger tank, (at least bigger than my 2 nano's). I hope to find out if this system can handle larger tanks and larger bio-loads.
2. Create a self contained frag system. No outside sump or filters. All filtration will be done inside the tank.
3. Dual use tank, The frags will be put on egg-crate trays in the top 12" of water and I will be curring Vida-Rock, LBTR and other types of live rock substitutes in the lower portion of the tank. I may also introduce fish to the lower portion of the tank.
4. Entire project should cost less than $500.00 total.
For this project I picked up a used 55G tank and am building a filter system into the side of the tank that will hold the Tri-Base Carbon, PH Rock and provide circulation. I should be finished installing the filter tomorrow and will post some pics then. I have ordered the lighting and my cost to date is $180.00.
I'll keep posting pics and progress as I go.
------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Replies:
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: July 20 2009 at 11:16pm
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Interesting. Keep us posted.
Mike -------------  |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: July 21 2009 at 12:57pm
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Progress Report
The filter is nearly done so I thought I would post some pics and get your thoughts.
I am not a Hiatt purist so my design incorporates the Hiatt system and some more traditional ideas as well. I believe that having multiple biological filters will serve me well should there be a problem with one system. So I under-size the Hiatt system and stock the tank a little more slowly to allow all systems to get up to speed. I can still add a few fish and corals on startup but then will slowly increase the bio-load to see what this system can handle.
In this picture you can see the filter is divided into 3 sections. The first will contain the Tri-Base Carbon and some filter pads. The second chamber will house the PH Rock, and finally the last chamber is for the heater and return pumps.
  This is a front shot of the tank. The 2 power heads will feed 2 spray bars for circulation. The top spray-bar is mainly to circulate water in the frag section of the tank at the top. I am going to see how this works but if I need more control I may modify the spray-bar with the addition of valves to regulate the flow across the tank. The bottom spray-bar is drilled with holes facing straight out and 45 degrees up and down for random currents.
 Let me know what you think of this design.
------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: July 21 2009 at 3:11pm
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Very interesting, Burt
I'm tagging along  ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: kay181
Date Posted: July 30 2009 at 10:30pm
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thats a nice divider i'm in. i want to know how your pluming works out i want to try something kind of like that on a tank i'm building can't wait for more ------------- day light scares me im going back under |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: July 31 2009 at 5:37pm
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It's been a while but the tank is almost finished. Unfortunately my lights will not be in for another 3 weeks or so. Here are some pics of the tank as of today.
This pic shows the multiple level shelves for frags. I can slide the shelves back and forth on the rails and adjust them up or down as needed. There is plenty room on the bottom for curring Vida Rock or LBTR but if I have a very large piece I can move the frag trays as needed to accommodate the rock.
  This image shows the Maxi Jet 1200 power heads that power the filter. According to the Hiatt system you want 10x Flow for best results. I may add another power head for circulation in the bottom section of the tank.
 This pic shows the 3 filter chambers. Chamber 1 will have Filter pads and Tri Base Carbon for the Right Now Bacteria. Chamber 2 contains the PH Adjustment rock. Chamber 3 is for the return pumps. The Hiatt system does not require a skimmer.
 I first became interested in the Hiatt system when doing research for my first tank. This will be my RD setup with the Hiatt system. I have a 20G, 28G JBJ Nano and now this 55G Frag tank. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 01 2009 at 11:08pm
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Fine tuning the filters today. I filled the center chamber with 20 lbs of PH adjustment rock then filled the tank with fresh water. The filter kept up fine while the tank was full but when I dropped the water level a little the filter couldn't keep up with the return pumps. I removed the teeth from the overflow to allow more water into the filter box which did help some. Next I lowered the baffle from the center chamber to the return chamber and that improved things a lot. After testing the filter at various water levels and playing with restriction to the intake to simulate a dirty mechanical foam filter I am now satisfied that the filter system will work properly.
While playing with the plumbing I decided to put a Tee and a couple ball valves on the top return line. This will make water changes easier as I can divert water straight from the filter box. I am planning on bringing the tank into the basement tomorrow and setting it up. Wish I had the lights but they won't be in for about 3 weeks. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: August 02 2009 at 12:43am
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Looks good Burt can't wait to see it up and running! Let me know if you need help getting it filled up with some corals! :) Chad. ------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 02 2009 at 10:36am
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Thanks Chad,
I will be looking for some nice pieces for parent colonies. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 03 2009 at 9:42pm
The Frag Tank is up and running. I set it up this afternoon and put in some LBTR, Vida Rock, and a some sand from my existing tanks. Unfortunately I will have to wait a couple weeks for the lighting to come in before I can stock it with frags.
 ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: August 03 2009 at 11:25pm
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Looks Great man!
------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 04 2009 at 9:15am
Well I couldn't stand looking at the bare tank and this is supposed to be another test of the Hiatt systems 24 hour cycle so I went ahead and added the Right Now Bacteria and moved the 24" T5HO fixture from my 20G to light half the tank. The water tested good so I added a few corals, Pom Pom Xenia, Kenya Tree, Acans, Green Star Polyps and some Green polyps. I also added a few pieces of Macro Algae, (Red Titan and Money Plant).
 My 20G is looking kind of bare now but I am getting ready to give it to my brother to get him started in the hobby. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 10 2009 at 11:05pm
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Learned a lesson about adding corals too soon. While the Hiatt system will cycle the tank almost immediately it does not create the nutrients found in an established tank. This is fine for fish as they don't rely on the micro-plankton and other goodies growing in the water as the corals do. After a few days the corals were not looking their best so I put them back in my display. The Macro Algae and Clean Up Crew are doing fine however. Fortunately the corals perked right back up upon returning to the display I'll give the tank a little more time to mature before placing corals back in the tank.
Still waiting for my light fixture  . I may go pick up some fish this weekend just to have something moving in the tank. Maybe a small yellow tang or something to graze on the algae.------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 4:09am
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This is a joke right? I need to set up a scam website like that one.
"PH rock" ROFL
"Right Now Bacteria" FROFL!!!
Here is more from the website:
"Based on our current understanding of the science behind aquarium keeping, to have an aquarium fully cycled in just 24 hours is like science fiction. Will boys and girls, this is not science fiction anymore is now science fact.
First of all, the official name of this new science is called "Hiatt's 24 Hour Totally Aerobic Nitrogen Cycle". LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Scam check number 1: Text written by 3rd grader: Check!
"Fortunately the corals perked right back up upon returning to the display" ROFL!!!!!!
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Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 4:27am
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Case study: We recently have to deal with a customer that setup a brand new 100 gallon saltwater fish only tank that use the Hiatt Filtration system. The tank was setup correctly completed with the Red Torpedo filter to hold the Tri-Base carbon. The tank was cycle in 24 hours and two fish was added the same day and four more the next day. The customer choose to put the pH rock at the bottom of the tank as part of his gravel. Every thing was fine until 4 more fish was added the next day. Within 3 hours of adding the 4 new fish, the water begin to cloud and fish show sign of stress and dying. Within an hour after the cloudy began, all the fish were dead! A full water test was conducted and everything check out fine, no ammonia, no nitrate except one thing, the pH has fallen to from 8.0 to 7.4 in matter of 3 hours. After a careful investigation to the cause of the problem, it was determent the customer did not have the full amount of pH rock that is required for his tank. He has put in about half what is required, the pH never went above 8.0 and when more fish were added, the bacteria when in to overdrive, release huge amount of acid and because there wasn't enough pH rock in the system to buffer, the pH drop so fast the fish simply could not cope with the stress and die. After all the dead fish were remove, the very next day the water is crystal clear again and the pH have rise back up to 8.0. The customer added two small fish this time waited and watch the pH closely for 24 hours, the water remain crystal clear and the pH is holding at 8.0. Since then he has added required amount of pH rock to his tank and the pH is now stable at 8.6 even with 20 fish in the tank. I hope everyone that read this understand the importance of using pH rock to buffer your pH, it is simple, inexpensive, safe and labor free way to buffer your pH and Calcium 24/7. If you choose not to use the pH rock or does not have the full require amount for your tank, please make sure you watch your pH closely and have other pH buffer product on hand. Do not add too many fish to fast, remember the more fish you add, the more bacteria you'll have. The more bacteria you have more acid will be release by the bacteria, like all living things, bacteria need to eat, and when they eat they poop just like you and me. There will be billions of the bacteria in your filter and it does add up. |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 4:28am
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Within an hour after the cloudy began, all the fish were dead!
ROFL!!!!!!!!!!!!!! "After the cloudy began" LOL!!!!!!
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Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 4:37am
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Ok now that I am done being amused.... I find it really sad that no one spoke up about this. I mean how many animals have needlessly died due to this scam?
"4. Entire project should cost less than $500.00 total." Chad? Mike? Glad your not my battle buddies geesh
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Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 4:53am
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This blatant BS is pissing me off. The more I look at this site the more disgusted I become. check out this paragraph:
"Experts" urge patience in this hobby, the fact is, most of us has little or no patience. Let's face it, very few people has the patience and are willing to see a empty tank with nothing but rocks for a month or more. If this new aquarium is for a kid, how many parents can hold their kid off for a month on a empty tank? The answer is zero! Not a single parents are able to do that. So most of us are rushing in to setting up the new aquarium, add a bunch fish before the aquarium is properly cycled. Hey, you are happy, look, I got fish! But very soon disaster strikes, you lost most or all of your fish (you don't really know why) What do you do then, you go out and buy some more fish to kill! This will go on for 5 to 6 month, finally you get tired of all those dead or dying fish, spend a lots money with nothing to show for. You then decided is time to quit this hobby. Do you know most newbie will quit this hobby in 6 month after they first started? |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 5:01am
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This is also great:
*Before we begin lets get something clear, we have seen comments from many different Internet Aquarium/Reef Forum on this web site and information presented here. Many people on those forum had posted comments bashing this web site, the science and the product as a joke, junk science, snake oil etc. which we ignore.
If you are reading this for the first time understand this: people who post hateful comments about us and our product are "Afraid" of us. They are afraid because they know the science is accrued and the product works, they don't want you to know the truth. Most of our customers are on their last leg when they found us, we were their last chance to save their aquarium and keep them in this hobby. If you find yourself on the verge of possible tank crash, the only thing to save you from losing most or all of your live stock is the Hiatt System. Our product produce results in days not weeks, or month. Switch to the Hiatt Filtration System is the best decision you can possibly made for your aquatic friends. Our advice is: Don't believe everything you read from the Internet Reef Forum, 90% of the misinformation and bad advices are coming from those online forums, do you own research on the subject in question and keep an open mind when you go through the information presented on this web site. |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 6:02am
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Hi Fishbot.
I don't know what your particular beef is with the Hiatt System but I have started 4 tanks with it, My latest a 10 Gallon and it does in fact work. My display tank a 28 Gallon Nano was started in March and I added the Clown Fish and Green Cromis the same day as I set it up. I used no live rock, no live sand and no other bacteria other than the Right Now Bacteria and other products required by the Hiatt System. I didn't ask anyone else to follow my example simply reported what I did.
You can criticize, and rant and rave all you want but the fact is it does work. I have placed my coral back in the frag tank and added a scooter blenny and all are doing great now. I am leaving on a business trip this morning but will post some pictures of the tank when I return. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 6:13am
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Fishbot, You are quoting lots of stuff that I didn't write and is posted nowhere on this site. I believe it comes from Majesticreefs.com which is a Hiatt distributor but I never used their propaganda. I can sympathize with their feelings as I have met with similar criticism form hobbyists wanting to dismiss the Hiatt System on other boards. Fortunately on this board I have been encouraged to go ahead and try new things. Here is a link to my first setup. It documents my first experience with the Hiatt System. Again I have never told anyone they need to use this system. I don't distribute their products. I have no friends or acquaintances affiliated with Hiatt, I just decided to try it and see for myself if it works, and it does. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32518&KW=Hiatt - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=32518&KW=Hiatt I welcome any civil open minded response. If you just want to rant then please don't bother. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 6:24am
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One last note then I have to leave for the airport. In the 4 months I have been using the Hiatt system I have only lost 2 fish (Green Cromis) and 1 coral (a hammer that my clown fish killed by rubbing on it too much) I am growing SPS, LPS and Softies in a mixed system and all are doing well. I have started the frag tank to put cuttings from my display as all my coral is growing quickly. I bring this up only because of your comment about loosing animals. I think my losses stand up pretty good against most new hobbyists of 5 months.
Burt ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 6:25am
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My beef is that it is junk science. I have been keeping SW tanks for the last 19 years and consider myself an expert and I am being honest with you that this is garbage. The only way to have a fully ready for life tank in less than about a month or so is to take fresh (not what you buy at your LFS) live rock and fresh saltwater from the ocean and add it to your tank. I have done this while I was stationed in Hawaii and it is the only way. The claims on the majestic reef website are bogus. You would get much better results by adding one peice of fully cured liverock to your system (and sure throw in some Walmart brand carbon) then you can get with this "method". In fact you don't need much in the way of fancy hardware to have a great reef tank, just good lighting, good flow and a good mature substrate. Many of the members on this forum bought my corals when I tore down my last 125. No skimmer, no reactor, no carbon, nothing but good lighting and lots of LR & LS and flow.
The reason you think it works is because you don't want to admit you got ripped off.
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Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 6:31am
| Ask your self what is "PH Rock" |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 8:55am
I'm not going to comment on the validity of the Hiatt system as I have not seen Burt's setups in person, but I would like to address your comment about needing fresh ocean rock and actual NSW in order to have a tank "fully ready for life in less than a month"..?
While I used to collect NSW from time to time when I lived on Long Island, NY, I don't believe I ever used it specifically to start up a system. I know I never felt I had to use NSW to start up a system. And I know for sure that I have never used freshly collected live rock, ever. I would also state that in my 30+ years of keeping marine systems I have been able to establish thriving systems (with reasonable heavy bioloads) in far less than a month's time, without suffering undue loses to livestock.
Would access to NSW and true fresh LR be a benefit to starting up a new system? Certainly. Do you absolutely need them in order to do so? Absolutely not.
In over 3 decades of reefkeeping I have seen so many changes in this hobby. When I started out in the mid 1970s a UGF, dolomite gravel, coral skeletons and NO flo lighting were the "state of the art". Things like Live Rock, protein skimmers and metal halide lighting were unheard of at the time...
Today we have access to so many different types of equipment, foods, chemicals, and reefkeeping systems. While that is obviously a good thing it also leads to some contention regarding what is "correct", what is "the best way" and what actually works vs doesn't work... I am finding that the truth is there are many different approaches that can lead to successful outcomes.
Now I don't know if the Hiatt thing is truly workable or a "ripoff" as you said, but one thing I have learned is to keep an open mind and give things a chance to succeed (or fail) before I make up my mind... I don't see the harm in simply following Burt's progress and seeing how it all turns out. After all, he's not trying to "sell us" on this system or hawking product - I don't see an ulterior motive here.
In the end it will either work or it won't. No need to pronounce it "junk science" just yet; time will tell us soon enough.
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Fishbot wrote:Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 10:27am
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I realize my posts may have come off a bit harsh. And I commend the OP for testing this as we all should do when a new concept is introduced into this hobby. However the failure of others with far more experiance than the "newb" OP to come out against this outright fraud and prevent him from wasting his time and money is deplorable. If anyone wants to have a serious debate about the merits of this system then lets do it.
And to reply to this comment:
Would access to NSW and true fresh LR be a benefit to starting up a new system? Certainly. Do you absolutely need them in order to do so? Absolutely not.
I did not say you needed them to start a tank I said you needed them to have an instantly cycled tank capable of supporting HEALTHY marine life. Obviously the posts here (and in other forums I visited while aghast at this scam) clearly prove that this system does not make a marine tank suitable for HEALTHY marine life after only 24 hours. No more than adding some ammonia chips to a bait bucket will provide any type of long lasting removal of nutrients.
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Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:13am
Not to nitpick (after all, that would be so unlike me  ) but you didn't say "instantly ready", you actually said -
The only way to have a fully ready for life tank in less than about a month or so is to take fresh (not what you buy at your LFS) live rock and fresh saltwater from the ocean and add it to your tank. I have done this while I was stationed in Hawaii and it is the only way.
(I "cut and pasted" that from your post - I added the underline)
But back on topic
 1) IMO, we really can't tell for sure if something is "outright fraud" unless we try / test it... we may have strong opinions, even backed with science and/or past experience, but for actual proof of failure you need to test
2) Having spoken with Burt a few times on the subject, I can tell you that he is well aware of the scepticism regarding the Hiatt system in general. I even expressed my own doubts. I will tell you he was still adamant in trying this out, which (of course) is his right. You may not agree with the science (or lack of science) on this, but uninformed and ignorant he is not. And, personally, I feel he has been careful and prudent in his actions so far regarding additions of livestock and then monitoring for any ill effects and reacting to that.
3) Having watched this topic progress for several weeks now, and having NOT seen a rush of newbies coming on here trying to blindly emulate the Hiatt system and crashing tanks left and right, I don't feel it my responsiblity to issue a "general warning" to the less experienced based on one persons efforts at testing this out.
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:44am
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Fishbot,
You are like many others who have found methods that work for you. Unfortunately you seem to think there is no other way but what you know and that anything new must be crushed before it has a chance to prove itself. I nearly abandoned trying the Hiatt system because people like you would rant and rave about how it wouldn't work, would kill my livestock, and so on.
I actually did research this product and this is where I met the most opposition to using it. It wasn't until I was introduced to Stan and Debbie Hunter at about.com. They informed me of their use of the product and documented their success. Here is a quote form one of their letters.
"We presently live in Kinston, NC, so don't have any example that you can see in CA. However, when we moved here from HI 3 years ago, Deb and I went to work in the Animal Jungle (a pet store) aquarium section. All of the aquarium systems were a wreck, when we got here. I redesigned and retrofitted all of the filtration systems in the store, using the Right Now! bacteria and TBPC carbon. You can see the results of some of the conversions in http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blank/bl_AJfiltration.htm - 1,000 gallon System and http://saltaquarium.about.com/library/blank/bl_AJfiltrationshark.htm - 2,600 gallon system . All of the systems "cycled" within 24 hours and continue (after 24 years of operation) to run extremely well."
Stan and Debbie were very helpful and assisted me with advice for setting up my first tank. It's been running flawlessly for 5 months now and if you care to you can follow the link in the previous post regarding its progress.
You can rant and rave all you want about how it can't work, won't work but I have done it and my lack of experience and scientific knowledge doesn't change the fact that I started with a totally dead system, added fish and coral within 24 hours and have a thriving tank today. I did use caution and had a backup plan in case of disaster just as I do with this frag tank. I moved methodically but at a pace that most said couldn't be done. Put simply it worked and is still working today.
Follow the links provided by Stan and Debbie Hunter. They have much more experience than I and have done a great job of documenting their experiences. As for a debate about the merits of the Hiatt System this thread is not the place for it. Feel free to start a new thread and rant to your hearts content. This thread is intended to document the progress of my frag tank plain and simple. I am not looking for your approval or pushing my experiences as Gospel however after starting 4 tanks and having the same result with all 4 I can say that if anyone else wants to try the system and follow it precisely they will have the same results.
Thanks Bob for having an open mind. Thats how progress is made not by closing your mind to all possibilities except those that have worked in the past.
Again the purpose of this thread is not to pick a fight or pick on a fellow hobbyist but to share something new with other members of the club. In fact if you feel so strongly about your opinions why don't you become a paid member and contribute rather than pounce on people who don't share your beliefs. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: dustponds10
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 12:12pm
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I for one do not know anything about this type of set up but I say if it works for you that is awesome and I am always glad to read of new methods because some hobbiest just like to do things different. After all if people werent always improving we still wouldnt know how to keep any kind of coral alive for more then a month or two. And if you have been in the reefing hobby for say 19 years you would know that as well. In the late 80's and early 90's people could keep some corals alive but sooner or later their corals checked out due to not knowing enough about how to house them. Thankfully we have had some new ideas and we are continually learning how to house our critters better and there for they thrive in a captive environment.
Thanks for keeping us updated and for letting us know what works for you. To all that might want to criticize please have an open mind, after all, what works for me might not work for you. I mean no skimmer that sounds weird to me and I know that my tank does 10 times better with one and I lost corals with out having one. If it isnt broke dont fix it and keep an open mind, its a hobby and success stories are always fun and exciting. I am glad that the Hiatt system is working for him, Congrats and keep the updates coming please. ------------- 120 ASM G-3 T-5 lighting 130 frag system T-5 lighting asm G-1x |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 12:44pm
| And you guys wonder why your all broke and your tanks look like crap |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 12:59pm
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I for one think that Burt has done a great job in starting and keeping tanks thus far! Fishbot, I have no idea who you are or where you came from but to only sign up a few days ago and then come in here preaching like you know everything is very childish and immature! I personally would like to see you banned from this site and all your posts deleted by a moderator. I know one of them is reading this thread. If you have a problem with the Hiatt system then test it and post your findings. Don't come in here being an ASS! Get off this site and go bug Reef Central!
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Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 1:09pm
Hey now! My tank only "looks like crap" because I have put off cleaning the front panel for like, 3... weeks... now...
 Seriously, relax a bit and take a few deep breaths...this ain't Reef Central. We at least try to contribute in a constructive manner around here...
 ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 1:59pm
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Just now saw this thread....
Hmmm. I don't have a problem with what Fishbot is trying to say... it's been said before regarding the Hiatt system. Many people are very vocal with their discontent on this. Looking into the specifics of a reef keeping technique is well within the realm of this site.
I do, however, dislike the tone. But hey that's what makes us each individual. Personally I think trying to prove a point (on either side) is best done with a smile and some compassion. But not everyone sees it that way.
Adam
ps- maybe I should call Bill Hiatt today and see if he wants to respond here???? Not sure if that would be helpful or just lead to a downward spiral. ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 2:06pm
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I didn't know you knew Bill Hiatt. I have never met or spoken with him but would be ok with his response.
Everyone on the site has always been friendly and helpful. They don't always agree and thats fine and I learn a lot from the opinions of others. This was just my first run in with someone attacking me personally without provocation.
Thanks Bob and Ryan for your support.
------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 2:10pm
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Maybe we could get hiatt as a speaker at a meeting and hear his side of it! Also I like the debates as long as they are friendly and constructive although I don't really like the comments that are basically = "I'm right and you guys suck", I personally would never use the Hiatt system but to use a generalization that all of the club members tanks suck because people here have open minds is beyond me. But that's just my opinion. ------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 2:26pm
Bill shipped a rather large box of his rock, bacteria, carbon, and stuff to my lab for analysis. The idea was to look into the method/products and see what we could get out of it. In the end our lab had to pass on the analysis. I sent it on to a colleague at another university. I don't believe anything solid came from the project.
I've spoken with Bill many many times. He's one of those guys that turns a 3 minute phone call into 20 hours of talking. While I'm sure he'd be happy to post here, I'm not sure if it would help or hurt this discussion.
I'd call him now, but I have plans this weekend and don't want to be on the phone.
 Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 2:32pm
I'm not sure what's funnier, that Bill will keep Adam on the phone or that Adam expects us to believe that he has real plans this weekend!
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Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 3:50pm
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Now this is the light hearted conversation I love about this club.
When I first saw this system I tried to research it and ran into a lot of the same contention that just raised it head here. It made it hard to get any real useful information about the products because the Hiatt camp was preaching that this was the newest and best thing since Salt Mix and the naysayers were beating it down with blanket statements. That's why I haven't pushed its virtues as gospel just reported my experiences. I haven't tried to explain the science behind it, (probably because I am not a scientist), I just want to get some unbiased info out there.
I don't think the Hiatt system replaces traditional methods so much as provides a way to start off more quickly. I think that as the tank matures and the dead rock and sand become live that the need for this bacteria becomes less important. Aside from having no noticeable nitrogen cycle my tanks have gone through the same maturation process as traditional tanks, from Brown to Green to Pink. As my corals are growing I am beginning to see a need to watch my alkalinity although Calcium levels have remained high. I keep thinking about removing the Carbon and PH Rock to see what happens but now that my tank is looking good I don't want to rock the boat.
I hope my posts have been informative and unbiased. I am not trying to win converts or sell the product but at least you know that there are other options for cycling a tank and if the kids really want a Nemo they don't necessarily have to wait a long time to bring it home. I love playing with tank and filter designs and trying new things like Ceramic Reef Rock, it's become an addiction to me as it for many of you. I really like finding ways to make a reef work without taking things from the wild reefs when possible. Since my Clownfish killed my Wall Hammer all the corals in my tank are frags from your tanks and my live rock is all Ceramic or LBTR (with the exception of 1 small piece that I purchased from Fish 4U, so thanks everyone for your contributions to my reefs and the community of the Club. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 6:50pm
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So Adam are you saying you agree with the "science" behind this system? You have a degree in Marine Biology right? I am I the only one who thinks this method is total BS? Come on...
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Posted By: Fishbot
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 7:04pm
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I will wager $100 that you could get the same "results" of this method in an identical tank with just aragonite sand, a tiny chunk of LR to seed and a bag of carbon from good ole Wal-Mart. Thats how one should really test the validity of this system -- with a control tank. |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:22pm
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Bot to answer your question adam said he didn't think anything solid come out of research. I think that means he probably doesn't think it is "good science". I also would be interested in seeing the results on a control tank study, but I don't know that it would be worth the time and work for anyone that I know to test it out. ------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:26pm
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Fishbot- I actually disagree with the claims (personally). I'm sure the science works and the tanks will work just fine (as Burt and others have shown). But like you, I too think you could do the same (actually I think better) using aragonite sand and a chunk of live rock. So I can't really support the idea and claims with what has been shown.
So, I actually agree with your posts. Just not the way you posted it.
Oh, and I admit it.... Ryan caught me.... I don't have plans this weekend. I was just being optimistic.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:27pm
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Fishbot
Here is a thread just for you. http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34784&PN=1 - http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=34784&PN=1
Why don't you go over there and pontificate rather than trying to hijack this thread. This thread is simply documenting my experience and whether you agree or not I have been unbiased in my reporting of my experience. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:29pm
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Burt- that is a good post, and a good idea.
A second thread for discussion is probably better... so Burt can go back to simply reporting the status of his tank.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: thefu
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:49pm
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Burt, I am interested in your honest blog on how this works. A control would have been nice, but maybe not aligned with your goal (if you want to drop extra coin thats your perogative). As for Fishbot, I am glad that someone can manage to be perceived as a bigger dick than me. For Chad, why did you make me look at this thread!!!
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Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 10:57pm
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Hi Fu
I can't believe how this is all turning out, such drama. Anyway I started this whole thing back 5 months ago because my Dad asked me to help him set up a Reef Tank. I had no experience but had always wanted to do one. My Dad is a very active person and Golf Pro who had just had major surgery for pancreatic cancer and now was home bound. I researched setting up a reef and we got started. We picked out a Red Sea Max 130D and bought some live rock and started the cycle process. Dad complained that he would be dead before he could even put fish in the tank so I started looking for a faster way to set up a reef tank.
I came across the Hiatt system in my research and tried to get some good info on the product as it promised what Dad was looking for, a quick cycle. Believe me when I tell you at the time I didn't know if Dad would make it to see his tank stocked. Unfortunately this same controversy surrounded the product back then but none of the critics had actually tried the system. They just bashed it. So I kept looking for someone to show me that it worked. Thats when I met Stan and Debbie Hunter on-line and learned about their experience. I decided to give it a try and see if all the doom and gloom was founded or if the product worked. I'm not a scientist so I tried to follow the Hiatt system just as they outlined but my system didn't match their configuration. The Hunters helped me figure out how to adapt a JBJ 28G nano to work with the system and I gave it a try.
OK thats the background. Basically I was looking for a way around the 6 week cycle without having to buy fully cured live rock, sand and water.
My opinion is that the system is great for cycling a tank quickly but that it becomes less relevant as a tank matures and the natural bacteria become established in the system. My tanks have matured just like a cycling tank with brown algae, then green algae and now turning pink. I have had Fish in the tank after day 1 and coral after the first week. I now have Monticap, Millipora, several LPS and soft corals all growing rapidly in my system along with a Yellow Wrasse 2 Green Chromis a Clown Wrasse, and Copper Banded Butterfly fish in my original system. I haven't had a problem with ammonia, nitrites or nitrates and the system has been stable enough for me to work in California 3 to 4 days a week with the automation I set up.
I think that if I removed the Carbon and PH Rock that my system would now be capable of continuing just like any other cycled tank though now that the corals are getting bigger and the fish are doing well I don't want to upset things by pulling out the Hiatt products. That said I don't add any additional products or change the Carbon. That's because the carbon is not used for chemical filtration but as a bed for the Right Now bacteria.
My take on the system is that it is relatively inexpensive to use. Doesn't take require continued replacement of any products so there is no ongoing cost and it works as claimed. Whether it is natural or not I guess is a matter of opinion. Bill Hiatt claims that the bacteria is 100% natural but I have to admit that it doesn't occur in the natural reefs the same way that bacteria occurs in live rock and sand. I don't think it is the greatest thing since Salt Mix but it is a tool that can be used if one desires to quickly setup a stable system.
Hope this helps,
Burt ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: thefu
Date Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:12pm
Ryan, I am more bothered with this comment than those of the new site member FishBot. I find forums that rely on moderators to jump in, freeze threads, delete threads, etc. to be too heavy handed and borderline fascist. With the exception of someone all out swearing and off-topic name calling, the other members can take care of the issue as was done in this case. Leave the thread deleting, user banning and other Mussolini tactics to those over at RC!!! |
Posted By: dustponds10
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 1:17am
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Great Job. I am following this thread to learn another way. I learned another way but for one I really like to learn other things. other options and withthat I am glad to see that this is working for you, and I hope that it works really well because you are doing it for your dad and that is simply awesome. That is what the hobby is all about. I hope that your dad is enjoying the tank and learning some new things. ------------- 120 ASM G-3 T-5 lighting 130 frag system T-5 lighting asm G-1x |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 7:25am
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Thanks Dustin, Dad is doing very well thanks, It's been a little over a year since his surgery and he is now back to teaching golf at the ranches golf course. He does love his reef and calls me at least weekly to tell me something new he spotted in the rocks. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: thefu
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 9:01am
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That is sweet! Let's leave this hate behind and move on to more reefing...
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Posted By: dustponds10
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 3:36pm
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I am glad that he is back to his way of life with an added hobby. I love having such an intriging hobby in house. I mean fishing, and basketball and what not are fun but to have something to do while at home inside is also fun. What part of Utah do you live in? I am in Idaho but i would like to see your set up the next time that I come down that way. ------------- 120 ASM G-3 T-5 lighting 130 frag system T-5 lighting asm G-1x |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 4:13pm
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Dustin, Your welcome to come by any time you are in the area. I live in Lehi right on the northern edge of Utah County. My daughter lives in Idaho Falls so we occasionally get out your way as well. I'll have to look you up next time we are up there. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: dustponds10
Date Posted: August 19 2009 at 11:00pm
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sent you a pm, let me know when you are in town and come on by ------------- 120 ASM G-3 T-5 lighting 130 frag system T-5 lighting asm G-1x |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 1:10am
In other words its all CHAD'S fault!!!!!
I feel bad I hadn't been following Burt's thread all along. I personally don't care either way. I know what works for me and it might not work for others. However I'm not going to crucify someone for their beliefs. If it works great. If it doesn't then lesson learned. ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: August 21 2009 at 10:05am
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I told Fu I was interested in his take on this thread that's why he put that comment. ------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: August 22 2009 at 10:11am
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OK, Hopefully we are done with all the distractions and this thread can get back to the simple progress of my frag tank.
I am still waiting on the lighting fixture but have some temp lights on it so I put a few items in and thought I would share a few pics of a few frags I got from other club members.
This is just the tank as it sits now.
 Pom Pom Xenia. This stuff is like working with a ball of slime. I used the needle and thread technique to mount it to this rock but it was like sewing jello so I stuck the rest in a container with rubble rock to see if it will attach itself.
 This is a frag I got from Jeremy Yesterday
 These are some long skirt zoas that I took out of my Nano. they have been spreading like crazy in there
 This is my favorite frag. I think they're called Eagle Eyes.
 When my lights come in I will be looking for a variety of stuff to fill it up.
------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 1:56pm
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Just built a shelf to put the new ATO on and other stuff in the room because the tank is in my grandkids play room and they are coming over to visit next week.
Another shot of the frags.
------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: boxer
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 5:59pm
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your frag tank looks great,do you just have beads of silicone on the glass with egg crates on top for shelving?
what lights are you going to use,mh or t5?
just curious,
Terry
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Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 6:20pm
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Hi Boxer,
No, Actually I picked up some acrylic corner guards that are used to protect wallpaper and installed them against the glass with silicone. The eggcrate rests on these rails.
The lights are temporary T5HO on one side and standard T5 on the other. I am waiting for an industrial 4 Tube T5HO fixture that will mount to the bottom of the shelf above the tank. When I get the new fixture I'll be able to use the lower shelves on the tank for softies and LPS and the upper shelves for SPS. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: boxer
Date Posted: September 12 2009 at 7:02pm
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cant wait to see it with your new lights
------------- Friendship is like peeing your pants--everyone can see it,but only you get the warm feeling that it brings. |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: September 14 2009 at 8:09am
I had the opportunity to see Burt's setups over the weekend. If you did not know he built these himself you would think his tanks came from the manufacturer with the filtration systems and shelving already installed from the factory. Very professional looking and well built 
IMO he must be doing something right - all his corals looked very happy within the Hiatt system environment. And not just "easy" corals, either; All the SPS from the Pink Birdsnest and the ORA Green (my guess) to the Blue Milli and the Monti Cap, as well as his zoas and palys all appeared to be thriving...
Besides his corals, he's got a fat and colorful Red Scooter blenny in the frag tank and a good-sized, healthy looking Copper Banded Butterfly in his nano setup. Neither fish seemed to care that they are supposed to be somewhat difficult species; both seemed quite happy and looked great!
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: September 29 2009 at 5:13pm
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So it's been 3 weeks since reordering the light fixture from a local source in SLC. I called to find out if there was a delivery date and believe it or not they misplaced the order as well. I am done trying to save a few bucks by going the industrial lighting route. These guys love you if your ordering a dozen fixtures but if you only want one they let you slide through the cracks. I just ordered an AquaticLife 4 tube T5HO with LED Moon lights and the timer built into the fixture from Marine Depot. I ordered it about 3 hours ago and just got confirmation that it has shipped. Baring any other complications I should have the light by the time I return home on Friday. ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: November 20 2009 at 12:39pm
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I kind of lost track of this thread but wanted to post an update on the frag tank. I have been very happy with the performance of the built in filtration and the Hiatt system in my frag tank. I am now growing SPS, LPS and Softies in the system.
The Aquatic Life T5HO is working out great. I used their suspension kit to mount it above the tank and it makes raising and lowering the fixture for service a breeze. I particularly like the built in 3 function timer. I was running the lights full on for 12 hours and that proved to be way to much light. After a week all my corals started bleaching out so I changed the configuration of the tubes so that one actinic and 1 daylight lamp lights on each timer. Then I have one set come on at 8:00am the second come on at 11:00am Then the first shuts off at 3:00pm and the second set goes off at 8:00pm. This gives kind of a sun up sun down effect with intense light during the middle of the day. The corals are loving this arraingment.
Here are some pictures of the tank I took this morning.
Full Tank Shot
 Frags
     ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |
Posted By: ksmart
Date Posted: November 20 2009 at 12:44pm
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your frag tank is nicer than my display tank! looks great! ------------- |
Posted By: sterling18
Date Posted: April 25 2010 at 1:01pm
| Burt, got to see your frag tank yesterday. Very cool indeed. |
Posted By: bfessler
Date Posted: April 26 2010 at 10:48am
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Thanks Peter, It's filling up too fast. I'll have to try to sell off some stuff this weekend. I need a little cash for my next project the "Tricked Out 20 Gallon". ------------- Burt An equal opportunity reefer, I support all hobbyists and organizations involved in Marine Aquarium Keeping. [email protected] |