Yikes! Too much Garlic Oil for Ich
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Forum Name: Fish
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Topic: Yikes! Too much Garlic Oil for Ich
Posted By: Deep Pitt
Subject: Yikes! Too much Garlic Oil for Ich
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 11:31pm
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Well, I've done it now.
I have a fish that has had ich for several weeks and doesn't appear to be on the mend.
So, I read the posts and did what I thought I understood; i.e. marinate meaty foods in garlic oil (no water added). I read that to mean put a cube of mysis in a veritable bath of garlic oil, and add it to the tank.
My source for the oil was some soft gel ampules which the bottle says has "the equivilence of pure GARLIC EXTRACT 1500 mg in soybean oil". I punchured the ampules and sqeezed the contents out. I used about a dozen ampules to get enough oil to bathe the shrimp cube.
That was done this morning.
Well, it appears to have been way too much garlic oil; my skimmer doesn't foam any more, and my silver branch pulsing Xenia has shriveled up and hardly moves.
 Now, I have removed the Xenia and placed it in isolation with oil-free water, and am doing water-changes as fast as my little RO filter can carry me....
What more can I do? I'm afraid my tank might crash if I don't get on top of this.
BTW, neither the other corals nor the fish have shown any sign of stress yet.
One concern is: will excessive garlic oil in the water damage the bacteria in the rocks & sand?
(I should have just bought the stinkin' UV sterilizer and been done with it.
 )Any suggestions on other methods so sop up a garlic ecological disaster would be most welcome!
Thanks
------------- John SLC (S. Jordan) 200 Gal Reef |
Replies:
Posted By: Deep Pitt
Date Posted: July 03 2006 at 11:33pm
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I should have mentioned that the tank is a 200 gallon with 50 gallon sump
------------- John SLC (S. Jordan) 200 Gal Reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 1:55am
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Hence the addage:
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing.
Didn't you buy the bottle with the instructions printed on it?
 Okay, here they are:
For 250 gal, I'd use ~1/2 pound of Activated Carbon, replaced after a week or so, if conditions do not return to normal. Don't be afraid to ask how to use AC.
 Don't worry, the AC will ensure that the tank and all inhabitants will recover and be just fine. Garlic Oil effects parasites mostly, not bacteria.
How is the fish? Any improvement? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Deep Pitt
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 11:01am
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Thanks Mark for your reply. I will head out today and get the carbon. Please advise on how to use it properly.  The morning after.... da da da dommmmmm
Status for this morning: the fish all seem fine so far, the yellow tail still has white dots all over him, and the xenia in isolation is making some effort to pulse, although weakly. Interestingly, there was a "puddle" of rust/brown looking sediment or debrie beneath it. I don't know if that is dieing xenia, or toxins it is tossing off, or normal expired waste, or what.
On a side note, when I put the Xenia in isolation, a creature resembling a slug and about the length of a small fingernail came crawling out from the mounting rock, crawl around the chamber a bit, then return to the rock.
I haven't seen that before. I hope that it is beneficial.
------------- John SLC (S. Jordan) 200 Gal Reef |
Posted By: Deep Pitt
Date Posted: July 04 2006 at 2:57pm
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OK,
I have now bought 8 oz. of activated carbon (Black Diamond brand) and as per the LFS instructions, have put it in a net bag and placed that in my sump flow at the barrier leading from the macroalgae pond to the return pump.
Furthermore, as per LFS advise, I caught the afflicted yellow tail, and gave it a fresh water dip for 3 minutes (fresh water = tap water at tank water temperature), then returned it to the tank. It immediately headed for the rocks and I haven't seen it since (less than an hour ago). Not even a thank-you!
 I hope it's just really PO'd and taking some quite time to figure out what just happened there.
Anyway, I did a 10% water change yesterday, and am ready to do another one today if that is advisable. With the carbon in there, I'm not sure if I should hold off.
Given that activated carbon appears to be an on-going need, could I use AC from a water treatment plant? I can get some of that at a much better price.
Thanks!
------------- John SLC (S. Jordan) 200 Gal Reef |
Posted By: gateb
Date Posted: July 05 2006 at 11:59am
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You might want to soak some of that carbon in some RO water for a period of time to see how much phosphate it might leach into your water before you decide to use it in your tank. I remember reading something in Thiel's books years ago about testing AC for phosphates in this maner. I've read that many water treatment plants add phosphate to tap water to help coat old metal water mains to inhibit corrosion and to keep metals from leaching into the water supply. So phosphate leaching from the carbon may not be an issue in the water treatment industry and they might even include the amount of phosphate leached into the water in determining how much phosphate they need to add to inhibit corrosion in water mains. I don't work in that industry so I don't know this for sure, but it sounds reasonable to me that they might do this. And it might just turn out that particular brand of activated carbon doesn't leach much phospate. I just think it's prudent to test it just to be sure though.
I found the article on how to test carbon for phosphate leaching:
http://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/carbmeth.html - http://www.netpets.org/fish/reference/freshref/carbmeth.html ------------- 120 Gal RR 2 Pan World 100PX return pumps AquaC EV-180 w\Mag 9 40 + 13 Gal refugia 2 175w Iwasaki Aqua2 MH 4 48" URI Super Actinic VHO IceCap MH and VHO Ballasts Ogden, UT |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 12:20am
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If it was me and I could actually catch the yellow tail blue damsel, I'd have flushed it. It's too sick. Generally, in a reef aquarium, if you can catch a fish, it's already too far gone for a freshwater dip to bring it back to good health. Even slightly sick Damsels should not be catchable. Damsels aren't easily afflicted with the ich parasite, so a damsel has to be very sick to have it.
I agree with gateb but I don't bother testing AC, I just buy the higher grade brands. I also use RO water to rinse AC. I also use RO water to rinse Activated Alumina/PO4 remover/Phosphate Sponge.
All you need to do is check the grade of that AC from the treatment plant. Get that info and post it. We can let you know whether it's good enough for reef aquarium use. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Deep Pitt
Date Posted: July 06 2006 at 9:59am
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Hallelujah! The damsel was difficult to catch; it liked to hang out among the rocks. I ended up putting some flake food in a large net and just dangling the net in the tank. The flake food slowly drifted up out of the net and lured the damsel. When it came out eating the flake food, I slowly raised the net as it was feeding and it didn't realize what was happening until it was too late.
Now, a couple of days later, the fish's skin looks much clearer (not so mucus-y) and most of the white spots are gone, but not all. The fins look tattered, but the fish is more animated than it was before.
So, I guess Ill watch and see. As for AC, I'll see what I can find out and post it if I can get anything.
Thanks for all your help, all.
Cheers! ------------- John SLC (S. Jordan) 200 Gal Reef |
Posted By: faviasteve
Date Posted: July 09 2006 at 2:17pm
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My xenia won't pulse normally for an hour after feeding garlic soaked food. I haven't seen the garlic adversely affect any other coral, fish or invert. Whether the garlic boosts the fish's immune system or whether it truly makes the fish taste bad to the parasite, it does do something good for the infected fish. Garlic soaked nori is great for tangs with ich. I also add a little vitiman C to the nori ------------- Steve Burton Logan, Utah |