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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 9:51am
Do you like the shrimp or dosing with ammonia better?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 10:03am
I dosed with ammonia from Dr Tim (suppose to be different than what u you buy in store but I have no idea if it is and it was free anyway) so I cant speak to shrimp but I know lots of people do it that way. The reason I liked the ammonia is the recipe was pretty precise (so many drops per gallon will give you X ppm ammonia) so being the ocd person that I am that worked well for me as I had to go through a few "cycles" before the tank could get the ammonia and nitrites to zero in 24 hours so that meant re dosing ammonia. Could I have thrown another shrimp in? Sure but I liked the accuracy of the ammonia drops. Plus I think lots of people have a cycle but its a weak 1st cycle that took weeks to complete and they then call their tank "cycled" when in fact their tank really isn't completing the nitrogen cycle as fast as it should because the tank just doesn't have the bacteria it should but they assume well I added some ammonia, its gone, and my nitrites are gone, I'm good to go but they fail to test if more ammonia is added how fast that ammonia and the nitrites are going to get to zero again.

Edited by Bryce - December 23 2014 at 10:05am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 10:07am
I like to be precise myself and would prefer to dose ammonia. I will see if Pet Village or Aquatic Dreams has it up here. Thanks for your input. Pet Village doesn't have any and I bet Aquatic Dreams doesn't either.


Edited by relethg - December 23 2014 at 10:10am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 12:58pm
Ok, dosed to 4 PPM ammonia. Found this calculator on line. Very accurate for me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2014 at 2:27pm
Awesome now I would turn skimmer, UV and ozone off if you have them and remove filter socks for 48 hours.Day 2 do nothing.Days 3, 5, 8, 11 (every 3 days) measure ammonia and nitrite. Do nothing on days 4, 6, 9 and 10.When ammonia and nitrite are both less than 0.5 ppm, add more ammonia to 3 ppm.Now measure ammonia and nitrite every day.When ammonia and nitrite are both 0.2 ppm, add more ammonia to 3 ppm.Continue to measure every day when the water is able to process ammonia and nitrite to 0 ppm within 24 hours, youre done!Do a partial water change and add some fish. (NOTE fish only, wait till nitrates drop way down to acceptable reef levels to add coral) this is how I cycled and is the Dr Tim method (one of 100's that will work)

Edited by Bryce - December 23 2014 at 2:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2014 at 8:25am
Update, Have small Diatom bloom started, rocks are covered and little on the sand.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 12:10pm
Thought I would do an update. First off, I stopped testing for phosphate as my new red sea pro kit is testing distilled ionized water at .04 - .08 so I know it is crap. Any recommendations on reliable phosphate testing? Also my PH has been testing at 8-8.1 but it fluctuates from 7.5 to 8.1 in a 24 hour period. I thought it could be Co2 so I added a DYI Co2 scrubber last night. The AK has been trending down and think I need to do something about it, but not yet. I was thinking of doing a 10% water change this weekend to see what that does. I will try and post some pictures of sump and tank today.

Thoughts?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 1:03pm
Sorry for the crappy phone pictures.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reefer4Ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 1:11pm
Wow you were not kidding about that calurpa growing fast. Must have some good nutrients in your water. I use a Hanna phosphate checker which I really like. If you would like to try it out you can use if for a couple weeks if you like as I know you would return it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Molli Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 1:14pm
Are you keeping a light on your macro algae at night?  That normally helps with ph swings.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 1:42pm
Molli, sump light is on at night. I didn't say it, but my swing is low at about 1500-2100.

Reefer, thanks for the offer.

Oh I forgot about this guy. His name is Ka Pomm, means iguana in Isan Thai


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 09 2015 at 1:58pm
Few better closeups of some of the rocks.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 5:22am
It's looking good. Thumbs Up

By the look of the tank and what is being done with it at this point, it should have at least 25 Snails and a couple Hermits. Astrea Snails are the best. Also put 2-4 Snails in the Refugium. You know, of course, that Hawkfish are major bug eaters. In the lack of awesome herbivorous bugs like Amphipods and Copepods, Snails are even more important than ever to this new reef. 

I would also add more Chaetomorpha(kate-O-morfa) to the Refugium. It is many times better at eating pollution than Caulerpa. Add the Chaeto downstream from the Caulerpa otherwise the Caulerpa gets too hungry and stresses out.

I don't worry one second about pH; haven't bothered with it for years. It's really not a big deal. As long as there is good water flow and algae growth, Alkalinity between 9 and 10 dKH keeps the tank healthy.

One last point, I'd be careful about not putting big rocks flat on the sand. Try the tripod method of aquascaping discussed in a thread listed in the Reefkeeping Tips below. Better than 50% of the biofiltration of typical reef aquariums is the Live Sand. Sand should be as exposed as possible so it can do it's job.  Come on over to get a cup of my LS which is full of bugs, worms and a host of beneficial bacteria.  I've got plenty of small rocks available too, for raising the big rocks off the sand.

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Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 6:00am
Originally posted by relethg relethg wrote:

I stopped testing for phosphate as my new red sea pro kit is testing distilled ionized water at .04 - .08 so I know it is crap. Any recommendations on reliable phosphate testing? 
Think calibration. The Red Sea PO4 kit is probably not unusable. The variation just needs to be considered in a calibration equation. Let me give an example. 

I use Hydrometers for testing salinity. They are awesome, but need to be calibrated against a known standard. The standard can be any of three things: 1)a Refractometer reading of the same salt water, 2) a reading of the same water by a previously calibrated Hydrometer, or 3) reading a standard salt solution. One of my hydrometers reads high. My calibration equation for that Hydrometer is to subtract 0.002 from the readings. To help me remember, I wrote with permanent marker on the body of that Hydrometer: -.002

Also note: It is common for test kits to read false numbers when testing pure water. I'm not completely sure, but I seem to recall reading that this may be inherent to titration testing, when the only impurity is the titrant chemicals themselves. Knowing that, it may be giving a fairly accurate reading of the PO4 level of the tank water. If the reading is higher than you expected, it could be the result of PO4 leaching from the rock; a very common occurrence especially when using dry rock that was once alive in an aquarium. From the earlier comment above about the Caulerpa growing very fast, it's not out of the realm of possibility that the PO4 level is a little high. Feel free to bring a tank water sample with you. I'd be happy to verify your results. 

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - January 10 2015 at 7:33am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 9:42am

Mark, 

Thanks for taking the time to comment. I will be down that way today. Will you be around? Would love a cup of your sand. The sponges are doing well by the way.

There are about 30 snails in the system of various types (no turbo’s). 3 of them in the sump some place.

Not sure about the hermit crabs. We would like to have some but are concerned with their ability to get along with the rest of the life in the tank. What hermits would you recommend?

The Hawk fish is being feed Mysis shrimp everyday (still wont eat flake). We love his personality and he is our favorite. The 2 shrimp that are in the tank are also being feed Mysis.

We added a Sleeper Banded Goby last night to work on the algae and a goby was on the list. We like the Dragon as he eats algae and sifts sand. He was in the tank 15 minutes and went to work. We think he will eat his way though it quickly and then we will need to feed him too.

I do need to work on the refugiume. I have not been happy with it from the start. It came with another chamber and I took that out a week ago to make the fuge bigger. I need to arrange it better that is for sure. To tell you the truth I have been measuring tanks to see what could fit down there. I would like a bigger sump. In the meantime, what if I take the flat rock and stand it on edge at the far right (against the glass). Then I would have the Caulerpa on the far left and add the Chaeto to the center so it can float against the on edge rock? Is it a big deal if the Chaeto doesn’t rotate? Oh, I have read reef tips and still do use it as one of my references. Just have not gotten to fix everything.

How/what would you recommend I do to add Amphipods and Copepods to the system. I would be willing to culture them if needed. The 210 is getting close to getting water and we both want a mandarin and other pod eaters so I need to be able to maintain pods in my systems. I did have some at one point but they have disappeared (prior to the Hawk fish).

I added one tablespoon of baking soda dissolved in R/O water last night to bring the Alk up and this AM the PH is 8.18 and Alk is back at 9.5. It is weird that the PH drops (1500-2200) then climbs back up over the night. I wont chase PH but I do think it is an indictor of other things going on with the chemistry. So many variables affect PH.

 

Livestock:

1 Falco Hawk Fish

1 Sleeper Banded Goby

1 Banded Coral Shrimp

1 Red Fire Shrimp

30  assorted snails (margarita, Cerith, Astraea, and Nassarius)



Edited by relethg - January 10 2015 at 10:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 10:12am
Dont add baking soda to your tank unless its been baked in the oven according to Randy holmes Farleys directions if you are trying to raise alk, you want soda ash not baking soda. Do not chase PH especially this early on. Your redsea test is fine even a hanna checker will do that with rodi water

Edited by Bryce - January 10 2015 at 10:12am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 11:02am
Bryce, I used Randy Holmes-Farley's instructions and he recommends baking soda. I did bake it.

"For rapid alkalinity corrections, aquarists can simply use baking soda or washing soda to good effect."

He goes on to say he doesn't recommend washing soda (purity questionable). He also has baking soda as his recommended ingredient for his 2 part recipe.


Here is his comments on what the difference is:

Soda ash is already baked = sodium carbonate.

Sodium bicarbonate is baking soda before baking.

Both can work as alk supplements, if adequately pure.

He does state baking soda (arm and hammer) is food grade and is recommended.

One of the sites I frequent the most:

Glenn


Edited by relethg - January 10 2015 at 11:08am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 11:10am
Gotcha as you mentioned ph issues I brought that up as the normal baking soda would drop your ph but sounds like your doing the right thing
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 10 2015 at 11:13am
Originally posted by Bryce Bryce wrote:

Gotcha as you mentioned ph issues I brought that up as the normal baking soda would drop your ph but sounds like your doing the right thing

Worked great. Alk went to 10.5 and PH is 8.19. I don't want to sound like I am chasing PH, I just find it so interesting other variables have on PH. Like Alk, temp, Co2 and so many others. I think that is why you don't directly chase PH, but PH being off can be a sign of something else is out of balance.

Being new I appreciate all comments to help me down this road. I very well could have not realized I needed to bake baking soda.


Edited by relethg - January 11 2015 at 3:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 12 2015 at 8:19am
I'm not a Chemist but I have read and heard plenty of Chemists talk about this:
Baking Soda alone causes a slight temporary drop in pH. 
Soda Ash alone causes a slight temporary rise in pH. 
The pH change is relatively small (<0.3). Within about an hour the increase in Alkalinity, due to adding those chemicals, buffers the pH. The term "buffer" in this case means that it brings the pH back to it's former level. 

To make it so that pH hardly changes during Alkalinity dosing, use a mixture of 1 part Soda Ash to 4 parts Baking Soda.

Glenn said, "It is weird that the PH drops (1500-2200) then climbs back up over the night." I must confess, I do not understand what was meant by that statement. Please explain.

Sorry I missed your message about wanting to visit, but I have not been to the forum since early Saturday morning. If a text message sent to 808-345-1049 doesn't get my attention, please call.

Aloha,
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