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Any ideas?

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Krazie4Acans View Drop Down
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    Posted: January 21 2014 at 2:23pm
So here is what I have going on with one of my systems. I've spent a ton of time researching and trying different things to solve the problem, but it still won't get to where I want it.

So I have a few tanks now. Most of them do quite well and stabilize quite well for me. I do have one system that I am having trouble getting the Alk and Calcium to the level I want and "settle". Here's the background.

First, I never used to regularly dose this tank and it did OK. Not great but ok. I would throw in some Eight four or reef builder once in a while but it just didn't seam to need it. I decided to dose as it was becoming very hard to maintain levels with water changes and weekly/daily cap dosing. The tank is 28 Gallon AIO. It's running a skimmer and gfo with purigen and chemipur in back. Before dosing anything the parameters would stay right around this:

Alk 7.9dkh
Calcium 380
Mag 1340
pH 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10ppm
Phosphate 0.14

Not bad but not what I really wanted levels to be at. So first thing I did was raise my Mag level to 1420 over a 2 week period. Once there I started increasing my Cal with the goal to be 420. I was able to get to 410 then it  stalled and my Alk started to drop. So I maintained my dose of Cal and started dosing alk. I was able to get my Alk to 9.2dkh but was really trying to get to 10dkh. I am dosing over 100ml of cal and Alk daily on this little 28g tank and still can't get the levels as high as I would like.

Even if I dose by hand to bring the levels up to what I want and then try and maintain they won't stay up.

I know my kits are good and have tested them on a fresh batch of SW and they match the manufacturers stated levels (+/-) which are higher than what the tank levels are. This tank is loaded a bit on the heavy side but they are all smaller frags. I have had 75+ gallon tanks that haven't used that much to stabilize them. Does that make sense to anyone? Can that small tank really be using that much supplement? I am worried to raise the dosing much more as I am starting to see some precipitation on my media bags and and what I think is a little alk bleaching on a couple of corals. The alk was raised over a 4 week period so I wouldn't expect any alk shock but... I know it's still possible. I dose all my calcium during the day (when the lights are on) and my alk starting 1 hour after the last calcium dose and stopping 1 hour before the lights come back on.

I have the two return pumps (2x 266gph) running 24/7 and 3 Koralia Nano (425gph) powerheads on a wavemaker alternating during the lights on period. I've never complained about flow in this tank with all of that.

My levels are pretty stable at the following levels:

Alk 9.2dkh
Calcium 400
Mag 1420
pH 8.24
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 5-10ppm
Phosphate 0.14

I would like to get that last little bit. Any ideas what might be going on? Any help is appreciated. Krazie



Edited by Krazie4Acans - January 21 2014 at 2:29pm
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Jimbo View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2014 at 2:43pm
For whatever reason tanks seem to settle in at certain levels. Looks like yours decided to settle in at those numbers you just posted.

I'd leave them right where they are. Sometimes we get too involved and start chasing numbers. I know it happens but it's not worth it especially if you factor in the accuracy of our test kits. Even the best ones have a decent sized margin for error, so who knows maybe you are at 10 dkh

Your phosphates are pretty high though so you may want to do something about that. HTH

Edited by Jimbo - January 21 2014 at 2:43pm
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Krazie4Acans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2014 at 2:51pm
Ya I chase the phosphates all the time in this tank since it's small, it's AIO and I like to feed. Thus the GFO. lol I usually have it down in the 0.05 range but it's been a little neglected while chasing this dosing setup. I think my apex is tired of me changing the dosing schedule.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jimbo Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2014 at 2:54pm
LOL Those numbers look good where they're at. Give your Apex a break and leave the dosing where it's at ;)
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2014 at 3:13pm
What am I supposed to do if I'm not changing my apex program? I can only check it online so many times a day before my finger gets sore.

I am not hating the numbers I just wish it would behave like the rest of the systems in the house. If I had an explanation for it then that would be one thing but to just say "well it just isn't going to do it" isn't something that comes easy for me.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2014 at 3:57pm
Aloha Jeff,

I'm sure you already know this but the reason we work within acceptable ranges of water parameters is  like Jimbo said. Each tank is different and so long as parameters are within those ranges a tank will typically be just fine. The reason for this difference from one tank/system to another has to do with the variability of each component used in set up (sand, rock, lighting, flow, temperature, etc., etc.) and the organisms, including varieties of bacteria, that populate the tank. (I consider LR an organism.)

When people indicate they are having tank problems, I know it may seem that all I care about is the big four (T, S, A & C) but for a tank where levels are within their ranges, the next thing I ask is ultimately more important, "How are the coral doing?"

So, how are the coral doing?

Also, when Calcium Carbonate is already precipitating from excess Alk and Ca dosing, trying to "get that last little bit" , is not only futile, but hazardous to the tanks natural equilibrium. I would suggest backing off a step on the dosing and let the tank tell you its equalibrium.

Regarding chasing PO4 levels, what kind of food is being fed? Natural foods are better for several reasons. Dry processed foods typically contain excess PO4 (sometimes indigestible Phosphorus compounds) and thus necessitate using more PO4 removal media.

My 2 cents,
Mark Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 21 2014 at 4:58pm
this issue is quite common, we get in a terrible of cycle of over-dosing to compensate for the overdosing..:) in other words, we try to raise levels that in reality keep dropping due to preciptation....


you may also have some ionic imbalances....not sure how frustrated you are, or what risks you want to take, but I would personally stop dosing completely for 3-4 days, let the levels drop and stablize, then do a nice size water change with a good salt to bring them back to ideal, then put your dosing pumps back on schedule, for dosing half as much.

Tell me about your sand?  Is it clumping?  Forming into concrete?

Also, tell me about your ph?  how high is it getting?  and are you using recipe 1 or 2....perhaps I will re-read your original post, you probably discussed these things there...


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