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Skimmers & Water Level

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jw3571 View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 26 2010 at 1:32pm
I've heard that if you don't have a constant water level in your sump, your skimmer won't work correctly.  It will either overflow or won't produce any bubbles.  Is this true?  I have a 90g with a 30 g sump but it doesn't have an automatic top off so I usually get 3 inches of evaporation/day in the sump.  Will this really make that a big difference?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 1:38pm
Yes it is true, depending on the type of skimmer you are using. Most needlewheel skimmers with a wedgepipe do not like flucuating water levels. If it is a beckett type skimmer it really isn't as important. Also it is best to put your skimmer in the recommended water level that the manufacture recommends.

What type of skimmer are you using?

Edited by tcfab - December 26 2010 at 1:39pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reefboy4life Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 1:51pm
have you ever thought of setting up an auto top off?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 1:56pm
From what Ive read, its very important to have a consistant depth. Not to hijak this but Im wondering what will happen if you run a skimmer in deeper water than the recommended depth? Im just asking because I just got a new skimmer and it is recommended running it in 6-8 inches of water, but my water level in my sump is at 10 inches and I cant raise the skimmer or it hits the stand. It wont ruin my skimmer or pump will it?

Edited by Jeffs_little_ocean - December 26 2010 at 1:57pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote badfinger Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 2:04pm
cant you even add a acrylic wall next to your pump so its in a differnt chamber, so the water level in your return section goes down not the whole sump level... you can just cut one close to fit, doesnt have to be water tight.

also the higher your water line just makes you skim wetter....but depending on what skimmer it could be more helpful or hurtfull
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 2:08pm
Jeff, it won't ruin your pump it actually makes your pump work less, but on the downside it might make it hard to adjust and get a dry head of foam but it really depends on the skimmer. What brand of skimmer is it?

Edited by tcfab - December 26 2010 at 2:08pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 2:12pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 2:35pm
I have heard 9" is about the max for that skimmer but you can try it and see how it goes. Do you have ANY room above the skimmer or is that tight?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 2:42pm
Nope, Im maxed out on height and can barely get the collection cup off now. I just wasnt thinking when I designed this sump. Guess I should have had a professional do it lol.

Edited by Jeffs_little_ocean - December 26 2010 at 3:32pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote tcfab Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 3:50pm
I would just put it in and give it a try. Are your baffles something you could take out and cut down and then silicone them back in?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 4:27pm
Yeah maybe. Im still in the process of re-plumbing the overflow and return back to the tank but If I cant get the skimmer to run in 10 inches, I will probably just pull out the sump and start over.

Edited by Jeffs_little_ocean - December 26 2010 at 4:30pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 9:20pm
Baffles can be used to keep water in or out. It's a design thing to place the Skimmer inside a section that runs one way or the other and pushes water out to another section.

Remember that the pump runs at a constant rate. So with a ball valve, the drain can drop water into a baffled area at a constant, yet adjustable rate. I'd be happy to help further. Smile


Edited by Mark Peterson - December 26 2010 at 9:28pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw3571 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2010 at 10:25pm
I haven't actually picked a skimmer yet.  I was thinking a SWC or Octopuss.  I'd like to do a ATO but I don't think I have the room for a resevoir and I'm really scared about flooding.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ejcatmul Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 12:46am
I just got a SWC 120 and so far just breaking it in, I attempt to keep my water level between 5-8" on the skimmer depth. I have not built my sump yet with baffles so there is some variability in foam production. I would definately go with the SWC it's very well built and you won't regret it. I have no other experience with other skimmers other than an AquaC Remora Pro HOB skimmer and there is no comparison. Also the SWC is completely silent. My Koralia's are louder than the skimmer.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 9:07am
Did you understand what I meant by keeping water out? It's easy to create an area where the Skimmer could sit on the bottom of the tank in lower water than the surrounding sump. Smile

What do you mean by "room for a reservoir" ? ATOing the tank with a line from the RO unit is completely safe and flooding - no worries mate. Maybe we can talk a little more about this to help you see how 'tis set up. Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Jeffs_little_ocean Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 9:50am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

It's easy to create an area where the Skimmer could sit on the bottom of the tank in lower water than the surrounding sump.
How?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2010 at 11:11am
The skimmer is placed inside a baffled area or a container weighted down or glued to the bottom. A ball valve controls the amount of water draining into the area and the skimmer effluent is directed over the wall.

Actually, understanding of sumps and Refugiums can eliminate the need for a specially designed skimmer area. You see, Refugiums don't need to have deep water. I once had a wonderful Refugium where the water was only 4" deep. I wanted room to be able to work in it under a normal sized stand and needed room for Mangroves to grow without being too deeply submerged. In fact, less water means better light getting to the Macroalgae. Smile
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jw3571 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 2:21pm
I can't run my RO line to my tank unfortunately.  So I'd need a resevoir.  Also, I don't have any ball valves to control flow into the skimmer chamber once I build it.  Is that a problem?  Maybe I just won't run a skimmer, that would make things easier and it's what my LFS recommended.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kody72 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 2:39pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

The skimmer is placed inside a baffled area or a container weighted down or glued to the bottom. A ball valve controls the amount of water draining into the area and the skimmer effluent is directed over the wall.Actually, understanding of sumps and Refugiums can eliminate the need for a specially designed skimmer area. You see, Refugiums don't need to have deep water. I once had a wonderful Refugium where the water was only 4" deep. I wanted room to be able to work in it under a normal sized stand and needed room for Mangroves to grow without being too deeply submerged. In fact, less water means better light getting to the Macroalgae. Smile


if your gonna waste your time doing this then you might as well get a Recirculating Skimmer thats my 2cents
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bfessler Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2010 at 2:59pm
A skimmer isn't an absolute necessity. I've been running my tanks skimmerless for nearly 3 years without a skimmer and have been able to support all types of corals from SPS to Softies. It does require a bit more attention to the tank and making sure you don't overfeed so the bio-load remains manageable but with proper care you can go skimmerless and have a beautiful tank.
 
I just set up my first systems with a skimmer a little over a month ago. It's a 50+ gallon frag tank a 50+ gallon sump/refugium and a 28 gallon Nano all plumbed together. I designed a skimmer section for this system using a 20Gallon tank because I want to feed the corals liberally to promote growth and the skimmer helps me do this without as much worry about excessive nutrients in the system.
 
A properly designed sump can support a skimmer using baffles only with no ball valves or other equipment. In fact the addition of additional equipment in a sump adds complexity and the chance of failure somewhere. It's easier if you don't have a refugium in your sump but it can be done with a refugium as well. 
 
There are many ways to configure a sump and skimmer and the best way for your tank will depend on what you want in the sump and the space inside your stand particularly how much height is available. You can also get a ball valve from Home Depot or Lowes for less than $10.00 and tee off the overflow plumbing so that a portion of the water goes to the skimmer section located at the return end of the sump, bypassing the refugium. This way you can get the most water volume in your sump and still keep the baffle for the skimmer low enough that you don't have to raise the skimmer up in the sump. This is particularly useful if you have limited space under the stand.
 
Once you decide how to configure the sump put your float switches or valves in the return section along with the return pump. This will regulate the water level in that section and balance the rest of your water in the tank and sump. Until recently I also used a reservoir for my Top Off RO water. I had a 6 gallon container and an aqualifter pump that would go for a week to 10 days between refills. This works great when you can't tap directly into the RO System and is actually safer because the most water that can be pumped into your system if something fails in the on position is 6 gallons. While direct connected systems can be made very safe there is always the possibility of water continually being pumped into the sump diluting your saltwater and possibly causing a flood.
 
Because there are so many different ways to configure a sump, Skimmer and ATO you need to decide what you want to accomplish first then work your design around your goals. The simpler the better IMO but don't rush this part of the system. If you plan it out and think of how it will work and what happens if something goes wrong you can design a sump that will work well for you.
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