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bfessler 
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 Topic: Hiatt Bashers Vent Here!
Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:19pm |
This thread is for Fishbot and anyone else that just feels the need to bash the Hiatt System.
Quotes by Fishbot
"I will wager $100 that you could get the same "results" of this method in an identical tank with just aragonite sand, a tiny chunk of LR to seed and a bag of carbon from good ole Wal-Mart. Thats how one should really test the validity of this system -- with a control tank."
"Ok now that I am done being amused.... I find it really sad that no one spoke up about this. I mean how many animals have needlessly died due to this scam?"
On one hand you imply that animals are needlessly dieing because of this scam and then you want to prove that the system is a scam by throwing fish in a tank with nothing but Aragonite sand and a tiny piece of live rock and Wal-Mart Carbon. I don't know anyone else who would be that Cruel.
I am sure you have never actually tried the Hiatt system but feel some primal need to trash it. Why are you so threatened by the Hiatt system? Are you afraid of loosing your credibility if it actually works? Do you think Stan and Debbie Hunter are just lying about their results saving failing systems? Did you even look at the links to their results? 1,000 gallon System and 2,600 gallon system. Do you think these systems would have spontaneously fixed themselves if they simply threw in some live rock and carbon? Are you accusing me of lying about my results?
I don't think you are the protector of all things saltwater, just a nut with a desire to trash something you really know nothing about other than what you have read on some other site and are looking for a forum to preach from so here you are. Tell the world about all the fallacies of the Hiatt System right here. If you are really interested in the science behind the Hiatt system here is a link to their official website technical pages. http://www.hdltd.com/technical/t_24hour.html You probably won't look at it seriously but you can't say it wasn't provided for you. Just what are your credintials other than you are a hobbyest for 19 years that doesn't have a tank and wants to get back into the game?
Edited by bfessler - August 18 2009 at 9:21pm
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Burt
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: August 18 2009 at 9:44pm |
Hmmmm, I like discussion.... but I hate drama.
I'll go ahead and post my story here and hopefully leave it at that.
I was asked to test out the Hiatt System and to evaluate the method and products. This was back in November 2008. I was unable to complete the testing of the process. I passed the project over to a colleague at another university. I don't believe he concluded anything worth writing about.
There were two main reasons I abandoned the project. One, the stated instructions were very specific on gallons per hour, the weight of substrate, and things like that. This gave me concern because 1) I was pretty sure the tank would be successful with or without the implementation of the Hiatt system (meaning I couldn't attribute success to the procedure) and 2) if the tank for some reason wasn't successful I would have a difficult time showing that the instructions were followed to a T and were because of the method.
So that made things challenging. I didn't feel comfortable publishing results either in favor or against the system.
Now, from a personal perspective on my OPINION. I don't like the idea behind the system because it is unnatural to me. It just seems counter intuitive to the natural captive systems I've been supportive of using. It is my opinion that the method and system would work just fine. It can probably produce great results. But it isn't the design that I think hobbyists should be developing.
But opinions change as people develop new ideas.... so you never know.
Adam
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bfessler
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Posted: August 18 2009 at 10:18pm |
Thanks for your opinion Adam. I value it and appreciate all the work you do for the club.
I am not a strict follower of the Hiatt recipe but have had good results anyway. It would be interesting to do a controlled study though I can't afford the equipment to do it. After setting up 4 tanks in 5 months my wife would shoot me if I bought any more equipment.
Here is what I would do if I had the equipment. I would use 3 identical 10 Gallon tanks with canister filters large enough to hold the required amount of Carbon set up as follows.
Tank 1 No Live Anything
Aragonite Sand, Vida Rock or LBTR and a canister filter set up with the Right Now Bacteria, PH Rock and Carbon.
Tank 2 Set up the same but with no Hiatt products just mechanical and carbon filtration.
Tank 3 Set up with Aragonite sand, Mechanical and carbon Filtration and some live rock.
Set up each tank and run for 4 hours to clear the water. Then add some hearty fish like Green Chromis to each tank. Monitor each system for Ammonia, Nitrite and Nitrate daily and note the results. Change 10% of the water weekly.
This would show how a new setup with only mechanical and carbon filtration, a new setup with live rock and mechanical filtration and a new setup with the Hiatt system perform over say the usual time to cycle a tank say 4 to 6 weeks.
While the Hiatt system would still not be natural as you stated in your opinion it would show its ability compared to a dead sample and a traditional cycle.
Oh I would also like to have a fully cycled tank ready incase any of the fish are in danger because of the high ammonia or nitrite levels. I wouldn't want to needlessly kill any fish in the name of science.
Edited by bfessler - August 18 2009 at 10:27pm
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Burt
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 18 2009 at 11:36pm |
Adam,
So do you not like dosing bacteria products such as Brightwells MB7 or a system like ZeoVit?
Just wondering
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Adam Blundell
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Posted: August 19 2009 at 9:32am |
I don't know.
I highly believe in using live rock and live sand and that type of bacteria. I've also been studying probiotic bacteria as a food additive.
But in general terms... hmmmm... I guess I'm not big on dosing or adding bacteria from a bottle to the tank. But I don't have strong feelings or any experience with bacteria additives.
Adam
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Aquatic Evolution
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 1:55pm |
Is there something new about this product? there are tons of products that make the same claims out of a bottle. If I'm missing something let me know, otherwise is sounds like the same hype that I've heard about similar products for years. As far as carbon, it's common sense that it has superior surface area to most other Bio material. That is why it makes such a great filter media. Dont forget you also need to change your carbon often, so it does'nt become Aerobic!
I with Adam, I'll dose my bacteria from Mother Natures source- Live Rock
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bfessler
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:13pm |
I don't think there is anything new about the product. I just used it to jump start my frag tank and Fishbot seemed to think I should be strung up for the infraction. I have a simple build thread going about my frag tank and the insults were getting out of hand so I started this thread so he could rant here instead of hijacking my thread. You probably notice that he hasn't taken the opportunity but at least his posts have stopped on my frag tank thread.
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Burt
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:36pm |
So this guy that is adding bacteria is doing the wrong thing?
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bfessler
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:40pm |
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If those results are wrong, I don't want to be right.
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Burt
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 4:43pm |
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AMEN Burt!
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Fishbot
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:37pm |
If he told you he wipes his but with the filter sock would you also attribute that to his success?
"A fool (Burt) and his money are soon parted"
Edited by Fishbot - August 20 2009 at 5:41pm
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bfessler
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:39pm |
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Glad to see you found the thread for ranting Fishbot.
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Burt
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:44pm |
 Fishbot wrote:
If he told you he wipes his but with the filter sock would you also attribute that to his success?
"A fool (Burt) and his money are soon parted"
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Yes but only if he wiped his BUTT not but! Learn to spell
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Fishbot
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:53pm |
I'll sell you some used ass wipes for that nano cube then, a little cheaper than Tri Base Carbon and full of live bacteria!
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:55pm |
Fishbot wrote:
I'll sell you some used ass wipes for that nano cube then, a little cheaper than Tri Base Carbon and full of live bacteria! |
SWEET! When are you bringing them over?
FYI, I don't use Tri Base Carbon or the Hiatt System.
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bfessler
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 5:56pm |
 You crack me up Ryan.
Hay Fishbot if you can simply open your mind enough to admit that there is room for many different ways of doing things I think we could get along. I admire everyone who keeps reef tanks and enjoy this great hobby and I am not looking for any feuds. Just because I use a system you don't like doesn't mean there is no place for it. Most everyone who has defended me here doesn't use my system and likely won't but we all share one common interest and thats reefing. For the life of me I can't understand why you are taking this whole thing so personally and spending so much time worrying about something so few people do.
Anyway I am willing to bury the hatchet if you are. Otherwise I don't think you are going to have much fun on this site.
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Burt
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Fishbot
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 6:16pm |
Everyone who is defending you is also quick to point out that they do not use your system.
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Ryan Thompson
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 6:23pm |
Fishbot wrote:
Everyone who is defending you is also quick to point out that they do not use your system.
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bfessler wrote:
You crack me up Ryan. Most everyone who has defended me here doesn't use my system and likely won't but we all share one common interest and thats reefing. |
Yeah, it looks like Burt covered that already. Any other CSI information for us?
My tank was fully cycled in 2 weeks. I got the rock from a 6 month old tank and the sand came right out of the bag. I mixed up all new water and my tank was ready to go. You can have a tank cycle pertty quickly not using the Hiatt system or using "FRESH" live rock and "FRESH" NSW. If the Hiatt System cuts down that 2 weeks to 1 day then I say go for it and so far Burt has shown that to be the case.
So have I ever used the Hiatt System? No, but I am open to anything that improves the health of my fish and corals.
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 7:34pm |
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I belive in what might work for one might not work for the other. But to each there own. I myself have never done this style but Im always open for trying something new if it will be better for my fish and coral. But from reading both of the threads thats going on about this just makes me laugh. I remember like 10 years ago that live rock wasnt the best thing to have in your tank and now look. Things change over time somethings work better than others and some just fall on there face. You just never know it might be the new way to do things but you just never know. Only time will tell but there always has to be someone that has to try it first. Do you think that the first person in space was told dont worry everything will work just fine. I dont think so that is why everyone that goes into space wears dippers just incase they S*** there pants because something goes wrong. The same thing goes with keeping reef tanks. Everyone says that it will be just fine but in the back of your mind you know that something can go wrong. But because of the brave people that are willing to try something new is great and I just wish the best for them. But as for my feeling on it. I would like to have it take alittle more time with others trying it out that has more money than I do to test it out. But you never know here in a couple of years I just might be starting a new tank this way if it works out as great as a few people have said it is. But I guess I should stop writing about this and go back and have a beer or two.
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thefu
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Posted: August 20 2009 at 8:29pm |
Fishbot, please, please open up your place for the reef tour so we can all go over there and see how wonderful your setups are after all your wisdom. I would love to see how open to criticism you might be.
Straight up, you are simply a troll. Somehow you have a need for the attention and this is why you have created this flame war.
Oh, I have an idea thats even better...why don't you come and present at our next meeting...Adam is looking for sage reefers like yourself to enlighten us foolish noobs...the door is open...I bet the rest of us will be far more open minded and cordial with you, even if WE think your ideas are foolish.
Man up already...
Fu...out...
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