WMAS Discussion Forum : External Refugium from Life Reef Sump http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sat, 13 Jun 2026 14:05:40 +0000 Fri, 09 Sep 2016 12:51:20 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=80850 <![CDATA[WMAS Discussion Forum]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : Since you brought it up, let me...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617111&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617111 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 09 2016 at 12:51pm

Since you brought it up, let me offer my opinion about your idea of draining accidental overflow water down the sewer.

If the overflowing water escapes down a pipe, will the problem be noticed before it's too late? When an ATO (automatic top-off) device fails quickly it not only floods the floor, it reduces tank water salinity. If left unresolved for a few hours or a day, depending on how low it goes, reduced salinity can lead to the death of all the inverts in the tank. The death of inverts, especially coral, causes serious pollution which kills all the fish that would have otherwise survived low salinity. Ermm

Rather than design an escape for high water, it's much better to design the ATO to fail slowly and for the failure to be easily noticeable ASAP, as high water level in a sump that was sized to contain extra water.

The solution:
1 & 2. Use a mechanical float valve for the ATO and an automatic shut-off valve on the RO unit. The auto shut-off valve on the RO unit ensures low pressure (~12 psi) so the float valve lasts longer and fails slower. The slow failure of mechanical float valves is noticeable when the water level sits slightly higher over weeks or months.
3. Design the sump/Refugium to contain not only the drained water when the power fails, something that you already mentioned, but to clearly indicate both "running" water level and "power off" water level.
4. Use a water sensor/alarm placed just above the running water level and another sensor/alarm on the floor.

These are a few things I would suggest, if they work for you.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - September 09 2016 at 6:43pm]]> Fri, 09 Sep 2016 12:51:20 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617111&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617111 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : Herbie drains have their drawbacks...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617104&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617104 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 09 2016 at 9:46am

Herbie drains have their drawbacks as well. I have another alternative we can discuss tomorrow.

I used to feel a little uncomfortable with the KISS acronym containing the word "stupid". Then I read the definition in Wikipedia. The word made more sense and was no longer offensive.
  Keep It Simple so it has less chance of breaking down and a non-mechanic (Stupid) soldier can fix it with limited tools in the field.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - September 09 2016 at 10:09am]]> Fri, 09 Sep 2016 09:46:23 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617104&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617104 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : ]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617092&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617092 Author: ElwoodUT
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 08 2016 at 10:04pm

]]> Thu, 08 Sep 2016 22:04:34 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617092&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617092 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : ]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617091&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617091 Author: ElwoodUT
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 08 2016 at 10:03pm

]]> Thu, 08 Sep 2016 22:03:35 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617091&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617091 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : I&#039;m actually an Aircraft...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617080&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617080 Author: ElwoodUT
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 08 2016 at 12:27pm

I'm actually an Aircraft Industrial Engineering Technician so I am very familiar with the KISS acronym (keep it simply stupid!) Haha.

I actually have thought about the amount of available space incase of power failure and tank siphon.  I am going to redesign it just a little to allow some extra space and then utilize the built in overflow that's on that tank I'm using as a fuge as an emergency backup that will probably be plumbed to a drain or something so I don't ever have to worry about coming home to a mess, just potentially a low water level if it comes to that.

I believe this is going to work but I am nowhere near an expert or even a novice at this so I'm always open to any suggestions.  Criticism is also always welcome as long as you recommend a resolution!

]]> Thu, 08 Sep 2016 12:27:24 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617080&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617080 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : Looks good. If it were me, I&#039;d...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617069&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617069 Author: Hogie
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 08 2016 at 8:06am

Looks good. If it were me, I'd be a little nervous about the level in refug as something will enevitably will go wrong and get plugged. I'd just make sure you comfortable with those levels and have safety factors in place to deal with a crisis. ]]> Thu, 08 Sep 2016 08:06:50 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617069&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617069 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : I&#039;ve seen it all over the...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617044&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617044 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 07 2016 at 3:40pm

I've seen it all over the years, from the best Thumbs Up to the worst Thumbs Down. 

My father was a rocket engineer that taught me all about KISS, an engineering acronym for keeping things simple so there are less points of failure and so they are easy to repair in the field. I don't want to ruffle any feathers, but I see parts of that setup that could use a "KISS", even beyond what has been suggested already. Are you interested?

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
]]> Wed, 07 Sep 2016 15:40:40 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617044&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617044 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : Sorry, my drawing must be misleading.The...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617024&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617024 Author: ElwoodUT
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 07 2016 at 7:32am

Sorry, my drawing must be misleading.   The water comes from the tank overflow into each side of the sump, one side gets the skimmer the other side goes through the filters and probably the UV sterilizer, it then drains from the sump into the refugium and then the return pump pushes it back up to the tank.

So the pods in the fuge should easily get sucked back up to the tank. I think...haha. ]]> Wed, 07 Sep 2016 07:32:36 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617024&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617024 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : I&#039;ll have to agree with...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617020&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617020 Author: phys
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 07 2016 at 1:52am

I'll have to agree with the above, you'd probably want the refugium after the sump... Doesn't matter really where you put it above or below, them bugs will find their way in if they're not filtered out. ]]> Wed, 07 Sep 2016 01:52:33 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617020&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617020 <![CDATA[External Refugium from Life Reef Sump : It looks a little over complicated...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617015&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617015 Author: MadReefer
Subject: 80850
Posted: September 06 2016 at 10:22pm

It looks a little over complicated to me. Ideally I think you would have the fuge above the display. The sump cleans up the water some, then the fuge eats up anything remaining and creates some food before returning to the display.
If you don't want to or can't do that, another option is to have the pump split to both the display and the fuge, both return back to the sump.
]]> Tue, 06 Sep 2016 22:22:43 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=80850&PID=617015&title=external-refugium-from-life-reef-sump#617015