WMAS Discussion Forum : Utah winter greenhouse? http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Mon, 15 Jun 2026 10:06:41 +0000 Tue, 13 May 2014 08:50:31 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=64971 <![CDATA[WMAS Discussion Forum]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : To answer your questions let me...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565267&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565267 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 64971
Posted: May 13 2014 at 8:50am

To answer your questions let me put it this way. Many many years ago, as a kid, I remember being in Timpanogos cave where the Ranger told us the temperature stays at around 50-55 all year. The PAHS(Passive Annual Heat Storage) and AGS(Annualized Geo Solar) concept is that we create a cave designed to keep the greenhouse at 65-85 all year.

Yes, those automatic vents are awesome but may be unnecessary.
The adjustable louvers/blinds for control of visible light will be outside to control the amount of summer heat that enters the structure.
If solar panels are used, it will be for running water pumps to further reduce dependence on purchased electricity.

This last winter, I came to the realization that ground water in the cave may be counter productive to keeping the greenhouse at 65-85 degrees.
 
* I just had another epiphany.* Why can't the insulating umbrella be just lightly covered with a protective layer of dirt rather than 2 feet underground?  What other changes could be made to this insulation umbrella which is meant to be a barrier to heat draining precipitation and moderator of seasonal temperature extremes?

It's time to revise the drawings.

Aloha Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - May 13 2014 at 9:34am]]> Tue, 13 May 2014 08:50:31 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565267&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565267 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : hey they do have vents that...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565222&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565222 Author: simpleyork
Subject: 64971
Posted: May 12 2014 at 2:47pm

hey they do have vents that will open and close by themselves depending on the tempurature of the greenhouse   http://www.simplysolargreenhouses.com/vents2.html  , no electricity needed, on another thought, blinds used to reflect the light/heat some can help keep it cooler. Another idea are fans that are using solar panels for their electricity.
sorry if this is a repeat 

Edited by simpleyork - May 12 2014 at 2:53pm]]> Mon, 12 May 2014 14:47:58 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565222&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565222 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : Update:We have been checking into...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565189&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565189 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 64971
Posted: May 12 2014 at 10:03am

Update:
We have been checking into the local greenhouses that use geothermal heating. They still use electrically operated evaporative cooling in the summer. Some are pretty much abandoned and in disrepair. Looking at these as a possible interim facility, I'm not convinced. It feels to me like a compromise solution. Is it the right thing?
]]> Mon, 12 May 2014 10:03:14 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565189&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565189 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : Thanks for posting that Jeremy.Aloha...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565188&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565188 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 64971
Posted: May 12 2014 at 9:43am

Thanks for posting that Jeremy.

Aloha Andrew,

Please contact me at mark@marksreef.com or 808-345-1049.

There are only a few other places I have found that used the earth sheltered concepts for a greenhouse, but they used only partial AGS/PAHS concepts. My goal is to use a fully subsurface method of cooling and heating to completely eliminate the need for electrical cooling and heating equipment and monthly bills.

Solar tubes are good. I also installed one on my previous home. Lighting is actually not a problem but for the size of greenhouse I have envisioned, too many solar tubes would be required to light dozens of coral farm troughs. The need is an ability to adjust louvers on south facing glazing to bring in more sunlight during Winter Solstice and yet restrict sunlight during Summer Solstice.

Aloha Hug
]]> Mon, 12 May 2014 09:43:52 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=565188&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#565188 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : Mark this is from an email I got...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=564826&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#564826 Author: Jeremyw
Subject: 64971
Posted: May 07 2014 at 4:02pm

Mark this is from an email I got from a Gentleman named Andrew: 

I am not particularly interested in coral, but I was searching for references on walipini and insulation and the thread on Mark Peterson's dugout greenhouose, "Utah winter greenhouse?", came up.  I have a couple of comments/questions for Mark:

Are there other examples of PAHS (or AGS) being applied to greenhouses?

I have a 21" diameter solar tube with a 12' vertical run to my first floor kitchen.  It puts out a tremendous amount of light.  I purchased it through the local Velux dealer in Salt Lake (the box stores don't carry the larger units).  I had to cobble together my installation using a residential kit and two rigid-tube sections from a commercial kit (the flexible tube would not work with the long run and I wanted the round diffuser of the residential kit).  I also have two 10" units upstairs that illuminate a 40' hallway.  One would have been sufficient.

I think that an 18" or 21" solar tube might provide enough light for a large tank, especially if you brought the rigid tube fairly close to the water's surface (leaving enough room to work).  A well insulated shed could house the tanks.  That being said, I like the idea of combining walipini and PAHS elements.


]]> Wed, 07 May 2014 16:02:58 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=564826&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#564826 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : J&amp;J Nursery in Layton is open...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545813&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545813 Author: Krazie4Acans
Subject: 64971
Posted: December 03 2013 at 12:21pm

J&J Nursery in Layton is open year round but not sure what they use for heating.
]]> Tue, 03 Dec 2013 12:21:07 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545813&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545813 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : I can&#039;t see why anyone...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545809&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545809 Author: Adam Blundell
Subject: 64971
Posted: December 03 2013 at 11:53am

I can't see why anyone would.  I'd go with gas as well.  Maybe someone out there has gone passive that I just haven't seen yet.  Dessert Garden just closed for the year.... right?  I really like their greenhouses.  You may be able to just wonder around there.
 
Adam
]]> Tue, 03 Dec 2013 11:53:41 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545809&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545809 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : Yeah, nice place. The Salt Lake...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545777&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545777 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 64971
Posted: December 02 2013 at 10:36pm

Yeah, nice place. The Salt Lake store has huge heaters that burn a lot of natural gas and use a lot of coal generated electricity. That's a lot of CO2 emission. I also know that not too long ago one of the two stores had an electrical mishap for a day resulting in the loss of plants totaling thousands of dollars. I'm wondering if any greenhouse around here has attempted a smaller carbon footprint by using reliable passive solar-earth heating and cooling?
Ideas anyone?
]]> Mon, 02 Dec 2013 22:36:57 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545777&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545777 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : Plant greenhouses aren&#039;t...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545621&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545621 Author: Adam Blundell
Subject: 64971
Posted: December 01 2013 at 8:43pm

Plant greenhouses aren't uncommon at all.  I spend a lot of time at Cactus & Tropicals.

Adam
]]> Sun, 01 Dec 2013 20:43:10 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545621&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545621 <![CDATA[Utah winter greenhouse? : Looking for winter operating local...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545618&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545618 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 64971
Posted: December 01 2013 at 8:26pm

Looking for winter operating local greenhouses. Smile

The design has come together pretty good for keeping the greenhouse cool in the hot summer, but as the weather grows ever colder, now I'm concerned about ensuring it stays warm on the freezing cloudy days/nights of winter. Lately I find myself more concerned with the aspect of making this facility with an extremely small carbon footprint, than I am about it's eventual use as a coral farm! Smile

I went to my sacred place of inspiration the other day where I have received much inspiration for this project. I had the distinct feeling that a wintertime visit to local Orchid Growers/Farmers would be beneficial. I went to the Utah Orchid Society website but contacting someone there is not as easy as our forum. If anyone knows of a greenhouse in Utah that operates during the winter, please let me know.
]]> Sun, 01 Dec 2013 20:26:51 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=64971&PID=545618&title=utah-winter-greenhouse#545618