WMAS Discussion Forum : 2 questions on lighting http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sun, 26 Jul 2026 12:42:50 +0000 Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:39:59 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=46780 <![CDATA[WMAS Discussion Forum]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : Thanks. Maybe I&#039;m shooting...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400352&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400352 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 15 2011 at 4:39pm

Thanks. Smile
Maybe I'm shooting myself in the foot, but there may be more options with your 2 tube PC fixture than you realize.]]> Tue, 15 Feb 2011 16:39:59 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400352&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400352 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : My main reasons for wanting to...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400194&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400194 Author: xlr8r
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 14 2011 at 5:42pm

My main reasons for wanting to change lighting are to get some flexability. My options are limited with my PC. With a 4 bulb fixture I can mix and match. Plus it gives me more options for coral. I also feel a 4 bulb fixture will spread the light out over my tank a little better.
 
I guess asking about Odyssea's quality was a lot like asking about Chevys quality or Fords qualityLOL.
 
Mark, if I make a change, I'll call you first!!
]]> Mon, 14 Feb 2011 17:42:17 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400194&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400194 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : xlr8r wrote:Right now I have...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400154&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400154 Author: Mark Peterson
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 14 2011 at 10:45am

Originally posted by xlr8r xlr8r wrote:

Right now I have a 30in. PC 130w fixture.
I'd love to get that fixture when you don't need it anymore. I'd prefer a trade but will also pay cash.
]]> Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:45:21 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400154&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400154 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : Sure thanks for the correction...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400150&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400150 Author: badger126
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 14 2011 at 10:30am

Sure thanks for the correction Ryan, I was reading back and my misinformation about the cooling came from posts he's made about not adding another fan to the opposite side of a  fixture like the current fixtures(that have a fan on only one side). ]]> Mon, 14 Feb 2011 10:30:23 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400150&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400150 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : badger126 wrote:That being...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400142&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400142 Author: Ryan Thompson
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 14 2011 at 9:16am

Originally posted by badger126 badger126 wrote:



That being said, the biggest problem with PC lighting is the tendency for their light to fizzle the on the deeper tanks - the wavelengths from PC lighting for some reason doesn't do well with depth from what I've read and since you have a pretty shallow tank you should be doing pretty well with the PC. What's your reason for wanting to go t5? I like t5 better, just curious what's making you want to change specifically. I'm a huge t5 fan especially over MH, which produce too much heat and consume too much energy when compared to t5s.

Also I'd like to mention that during my research when I was trying to make up my own mind about lighting I learned that T5 bulbs actually have no need of cooling unless in an enclosed canopy - they have a self cooling mechanism in the labeled end of the bulb(don't ask me how it works). This is why the Current (have no clue about other brands) fixtures only put fans on one end of the fixture. So there is actually no concern when it comes to the Odyessa fixtures if they're not cooled. If you'd like my source on this I may be able to dig it up, but it's from the guy on RC who is generally considered their t5 expert.



I am sorry but their is A LOT of misinformation in your statement that needs to be corrected.

First off it has nothing to do with the "wavelengths" from PC lighting as to why they don't penetrate water. It has to do with the reflectors. PC's are big and bulky and you can't wrap a good reflector around them. Internal reflectors only do so much on PC. An internally reflected bulb can't come close to to staying up with an externally reflected bulb.

Second, T5's need to ALWAYS be cooled. I can PROMISE anyone that if you are talking about Grim Reefer (The RC T5 expert) he will never, ever tell you to not cool T5. You can dig that link up all you want and I will post 50 different posts from Grim where he talks about how important is to cool T5 bulbs.

The "mechanism" you speak of is an item that regulates how much pressure is in the bulb. It all depends on how much heat the ballasts and bulbs have that will determine how hard the bulbs are run.

If you are using a spec T5 ballast it will have a thermal regulator on the ballast. How hot the ballasts runs, is what determines if the bulbs get the correct wattage. Over heating or over cooling a ballast, KILLS performance on T5.

If you over cool or over heat the bulb, it changes the pressure inside the bulb and the ballast will change what wattage it is running at.

To get the cold spot on a T5 to 95F you will NEED fans. No passive cooling system can accomplish this. Current's cooling system is pretty bad. It does not keep the cold spots of the bulbs at 95F. It isn't that big of a deal with Current stuff because they use cheap Sunpak ballasts that aren't spec T5 ballasts. They under drive the bulbs and cause sub par performance as is.

Giesemann claims that their passive cooling is far superior to ANY other cooling system on the market. Yet, if you measure how hot their T5's get, you will quickly see and learn that they are just marketing something and making up excuses.

Here is a post I pulled from another site a year ago or so. This guy compared the output from the uber expensive Gmann fixtures and his ATI. The results are pretty impressive for ATI and total shot in the foot to Gmann.

"Hi all,

I compared an ATI 8x39w to my mate's Giesemann matrix 8x54w. 

I know theres a wattage difference so the light output will be percentage.

control factors 
height 30cm / room temp 22c / we both used apogee quantum meter and sensor

We do have different tubes, but the light output is so different, I really don't think it makes much of a difference.

T5 needs to be warmed up to have an optium light output, it took about 2mins to reach 100% output, me mate similar.

The active cooling in the ATI is on 6w throughout this comparison

time ATI GM
5min 100% 100%
15mins 100% 87%
30mins 98% 75%
1hr 98% 53%
2hrs 98% 51%

Although T5 is a cooler option than Metal Halide, it doesn't mean it won't produce heat. This, I realised, will cripple the light output which in this case to 50%. 
I looked at the GM at his place and they do have a metal mesh for passive cooling, but if you look at the bottom, the reflectors covers all the gaps which means theres no way heat from T5 can escape, the only way is down and out. The Giesemann know this because theres no splash guard!! This makes the metal mesh useful only for cooling the internal ballast. 
I'm not bad mouthing Giesemann, I really like their T5 lamps and the razor units. But I'm just angry that my mate spent a fortune on this, which proves to be doing half of what it suppose to do!!"

Here is another good link if you really want to see what cooling T5's will do.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1641235

Hope that clears things up for some people.


]]> Mon, 14 Feb 2011 09:16:09 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400142&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400142 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : I agree with what everyone else...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400139&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400139 Author: EvanB756
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 14 2011 at 8:16am

I agree with what everyone else is saying. they are not the best made fixtures but they are hard to beat as far as price goes. I am glad I didn't spend the extra $300 for the other one i was looking at.  I own the 2MH and 4 t5 model and it goes over my 90. I have had no problems with it at all.

I would plan on changing the bulbs though, their t5/pc bulbs are pretty bad and they should be replaced in my opinion. Other than that though i say go for it.

oh and I would go with the t5 set up instead of pc.
]]> Mon, 14 Feb 2011 08:16:04 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400139&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400139 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : The spot on the labeled side of...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400138&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400138 Author: badfinger
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 14 2011 at 7:47am

The spot on the labeled side of the bulb has the "cold spot"...the cold spot is the spot that needs to stay around like 95 degrees for the bulb to work properly. Which means that I would still cool that side of the bulb.

T5s are better then pcs for many reason.. first one is size PCs are like 7/8" and T5s are 5/8"... smaller bulb means more light can make it around the light, hit the reflector and back down to the tank...what is needed for a "good" T5 fixture is ballasts,reflectors,cooling and bulbs (I personally think in that order)]]> Mon, 14 Feb 2011 07:47:15 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400138&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400138 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : I agree that the Odyessa fixtures...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400135&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400135 Author: badger126
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 14 2011 at 1:53am

I agree that the Odyessa fixtures aren't the greatest out there but they are fine for people who are on a budget. I too have heard about their recent improvements in quality and while I personally own a Current fixture, I have known a few people with the Aquatraders fixture over their tanks and they do just fine.

That being said, the biggest problem with PC lighting is the tendency for their light to fizzle the on the deeper tanks - the wavelengths from PC lighting for some reason doesn't do well with depth from what I've read and since you have a pretty shallow tank you should be doing pretty well with the PC. What's your reason for wanting to go t5? I like t5 better, just curious what's making you want to change specifically. I'm a huge t5 fan especially over MH, which produce too much heat and consume too much energy when compared to t5s.

Also I'd like to mention that during my research when I was trying to make up my own mind about lighting I learned that T5 bulbs actually have no need of cooling unless in an enclosed canopy - they have a self cooling mechanism in the labeled end of the bulb(don't ask me how it works). This is why the Current (have no clue about other brands) fixtures only put fans on one end of the fixture. So there is actually no concern when it comes to the Odyessa fixtures if they're not cooled. If you'd like my source on this I may be able to dig it up, but it's from the guy on RC who is generally considered their t5 expert.

I personally recommend getting the Odyessa fixture and just replace the bulbs when you get the extra cash - then you can customize the look that you want with your new bulbs, plus the new bulbs you get will have a much better PAR rating than the ones that come with the fixture.
]]> Mon, 14 Feb 2011 01:53:17 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400135&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400135 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : Aqua tradrs PC and T5 setups arent...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400104&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400104 Author: SGH360
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 13 2011 at 9:21pm

Aqua tradrs PC and T5 setups arent the best. Honestly i would go for their MH setups which the 2011 model is amazing. it comes with T5 instead of pc as supplements. all of the bulbs which can be replaced with ATI. MH ballast can be swapped with ice cap. you can get a decent MH setup for a fraction of the price compared to Coralife.]]> Sun, 13 Feb 2011 21:21:14 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400104&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400104 <![CDATA[2 questions on lighting : I wouldn&#039;t worry too much...]]> http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400087&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400087 Author: bfessler
Subject: 46780
Posted: February 13 2011 at 8:09pm

I wouldn't worry too much about the passive cooling of the fixture unless you have them buttoned up in a hood that has little or no circulation. I've been running a 24" Glo fixture for 3 years without any active cooling and they do just fine changing the lamps annualy. If you're concerned about it just set up a schedule and replace one lamp every 3 months. That way you'll always have 3 lamps under 9 months old and it's a lot easier to buy one lamp every 3 months than 4 lamps all at one time.Wink]]> Sun, 13 Feb 2011 20:09:18 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=46780&PID=400087&title=2-questions-on-lighting#400087