http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ Copyright (c) 2006-2013 Web Wiz Forums - All Rights Reserved. Sun, 02 Aug 2026 04:37:38 +0000 Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:23:55 +0000 http://blogs.law.harvard.edu/tech/rss Web Wiz Forums 12.03 360 www.utahreefs.com/forum/RSS_post_feed.asp?TID=24355 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/1by1.gif http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/ http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220147&title=diy-mhs#220147 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 7:23pm

firefighter6681 wrote: Sorry Camarofish let me clear that up. I was stating that you should never think you know more then another just because you have a different point of view. You should never try to make people feel stupid when all they are doing is stating what they think and what works for them. I also was not talking about the bulb putting off more heat because of the K rating. I was stating there is also a 20,000K bulb they could go with. Just depends on the look they are going with.  Also the person already stated they have a hood that they are putting it in and so heat will come into play unless they have ventilation.

I certainly was not trying to put you down, and if somehow I did I am sorry, YOU are correct , in that when a light source, or if looked at a different way, a heat source, is put into a closed hood with little ventilation over water, it will heat up the water, of course it will, for that, I did misunderstand you. and you are correct.

I was trying to explain that there are ways to have that much light over a tank and not have it heat up the water.

Peace.

Brian


]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:23:55 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220147&title=diy-mhs#220147 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220128&title=diy-mhs#220128 Author: TriggerHappy
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 7:01pm

Oh, okay.  With all due respect, I do not feel Brian was putting you down. ]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 19:01:27 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220128&title=diy-mhs#220128 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220124&title=diy-mhs#220124 Author: firefighter6681
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 6:51pm

Sorry Camarofish let me clear that up. I was stating that you should never think you know more then another just because you have a different point of view. You should never try to make people feel stupid when all they are doing is stating what they think and what works for them.

I also was not talking about the bulb putting off more heat because of the K rating. I was stating there is also a 20,000K bulb they could go with. Just depends on the look they are going with.  Also the person already stated they have a hood that they are putting it in and so heat will come into play unless they have ventilation. ]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:51:05 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220124&title=diy-mhs#220124 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220119&title=diy-mhs#220119 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 6:44pm

I got off on a tangent, (I think that was aimed at me, no ruffled feathers here ) I just disagree that mh makes a tank hotter than any other bulb at the same wattage and lumen.

anyway that bracket that I made was simple to do and is still doing a great job, I think that a better reflector would help, but have yet to get around to it.


]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:44:21 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220119&title=diy-mhs#220119 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220116&title=diy-mhs#220116 Author: TriggerHappy
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 6:37pm

firefighter6681 wrote: Also don't to the one that thinks he knows more should stop and think before you post or trying to say the person don't know what he is talking about.

Huh?
]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:37:32 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220116&title=diy-mhs#220116 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220115&title=diy-mhs#220115 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 6:36pm

back on topic, here is a bracket that I made for less than $15 with parts from the electrical wholesale store.

with this all I needed was a reflector and a ballast.

the upload is broke, hang on I'll post to my gallery account and link.

http:////gallery.utahreefs.com/v/bbeck4x4/20061204-IMG_4427_edited-2.jpg.html









Edited by bbeck4x4 - March 17 2008 at 6:38pm]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:36:40 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220115&title=diy-mhs#220115 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220110&title=diy-mhs#220110 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 6:04pm


IMO, it is not that simple,  it's all in the ventilation and the design of the hood. I am sure that for those that have hanging pendants, and no hood at all, there is much less concern about the heat. My wife has a 12 gallon nano with a 70 watt MH light on it, she has to use a heater to keep the tank warm enough. this is a pendant type fixture.


No one way is the best, (for anything) personally I believe that the corals are expecting a pinpoint source of light, the sun.

 I think that MH gets us as close to that as possible. for the least amount of $ spent. not to say that the other methods won't work.

I am not really trying to say that you are wrong, per se, I just don't think that you are comparing apples and apples, a 250 watt MH bulb on average is putting out 21,000 lumen, If you were to get any other combination of lighting up to the 21,000 lumen output you would  see how hot things get.

Larger surface area or not, the heat output is going to be similar for the similar lumen output.
There is no free lunch, be it with a electronic ballast, or a magnetic ballast.
  Now for the electronic ballast, it is more energy efficient, true, I personally believe the savings are from heat output at the ballast, not at the bulb, this heat difference does not affect the water temp. at least on my tank.

My electronic ballast's bulb is the same temp as the Magnetic ballast bulb. ( I can prove it, I have a infrared temp probe)

With MH you can get that high of output in a small package. With a per bulb price that costs $70-$90. this leaves me more room for atintic lighting and to get my arm in the tank.

that is why I went with MH, to get my tank into the 40,000 lumen range with two bulbs. Two bulbs plus one year life=less money spent per year.

Beyond MH the current lighting that looks promising is the T5HO lights, they put out a better quality light in a smaller package than the VHO bulbs, the only trouble that I have with them is in trying to get to 40,000 lumen, a t5ho has roughly 5000 lumen per bulb. so I would need 8 bulbs. as soon as the cost gets down there, It would then compare with MH on a cost basis.

I have high hopes for the LED technology, it is unfortunately not cost effective at this time.

Do what works best for you, I am simply expressing the reasoning that I used to go with MH, people have this opinion that MH costs more and is hotter for the tank, I just don't share that opinion.

It may cost more initially,  if you are not talking a DIY fixture and purchase a new fixture.  The real question is how much light do you want to give your corals, and what type of coral do you want to keep.






Edited by bbeck4x4 - March 17 2008 at 6:49pm]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 18:04:43 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220110&title=diy-mhs#220110 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220097&title=diy-mhs#220097 Author: firefighter6681
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 5:04pm

Very true bbeck4x4.  But like you said they have a larger surface area and so in turn they cool off faster. So yes with  Metal Halides you have to watch the heat more because they don't have the surface area to cool down as fast, in turn they do heat up your tank more because the heat can not dissipate as fast

I think with any info people give you that you have to take what will work best for you. Also don't to the one that thinks he knows more should stop and think before you post or trying to say the person don't know what he is talking about. Because you made  my point at the same time as to trying to say i'm wrong
]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 17:04:51 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220097&title=diy-mhs#220097 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220079&title=diy-mhs#220079 Author: bbeck4x4
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 3:19pm

the heat difference between an electronic balast and a magnetic balast are slight, I have one of each, there is no difference in the temp of the bulb. MH has all of the light in one area, so it seems that there is more heat, in reality the heat is nearly the same as any other bulb, with those other bulbs the heat is spread out along a larger surface area this way they also get more area to cool from, so they can be touched and not seem as hot.

250 watts of light from any source is going to at least equal 250 watts of heat any way that you want to stack it.


]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 15:19:16 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220079&title=diy-mhs#220079 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220071&title=diy-mhs#220071 Author: firefighter6681
Subject: 24355
Posted: March 17 2008 at 2:54pm

I would say it just depends on what Watts your looking at getting and the type of ballast. Electronic Ballast can cost you more but with less heat. Magnetic Run just a little less but you get more heat.  also don't forget to there are also 20,000K bulbs.

The one main draw back of Metal Halides are the Heat. 

I would keep a eye on Ebay to. I just picked up 4 - 400Watt Electronic Retro fit units with bulbs for just $400. ]]> Mon, 17 Mar 2008 14:54:08 +0000 http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24355&PID=220071&title=diy-mhs#220071