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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : So how do you guys test your new...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111897&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111897</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=96">jfinch</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;05&nbsp;2006 at 11:26am<br /><br /><strong>So how do you guys test your new tanks? What do you use to cycle them?</strong><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Personally, I&nbsp;add&nbsp;as much&nbsp;sand as I can get from a friend's tank, live rock from the store and fill with water.&nbsp; There will be plenty of die-off from the live rock alone to cycle the tank.&nbsp; When the ammonia drops to zero, I start to add livestock.&nbsp; And I add livestock slowly to allow bacteria colonies to catch up to the increased bioload.<BR><BR><strong>The use of pure unscented ammonia ...</strong></DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>I find it incredulous that you'd suggest to an admitted Novice to add ammonia to their tank.&nbsp; Using ammonia to cycle or even test for nitrifying bacteria is best left up to the experienced hobbyist, imo.&nbsp; Even then, I'd suggest an ammonia salt over liquid ammonia.</DIV><DIV><BR><strong>The biggest draw back to using pure unscented ammonia over typical fish foods, or grocery store bought table shrimp is the method requires a large water change of 90%.</strong> </DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Help me out.&nbsp; Why does this method require such a large waterchange?</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV><strong>The pure unscented ammonia can reek havoic on the PH of a tank</strong> </DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>You're adding enough ammonia to cause a pH increase?&nbsp; That's a lot.&nbsp; Another reason to use an ammonia salt.</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 11:26:17 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : i will take your clown or any...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111869&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111869</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1276">scubasteve</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;05&nbsp;2006 at 2:20am<br /><br />&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;i will take your clown or any fish i you need to get ride of them just tell me how much an if later you want them back i will sale them back to you for the same just let me know&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;801-260-1245 ask for nathan im in west jordan]]>
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   <pubDate>Fri, 05 May 2006 02:20:32 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : It was lovely to meet you (briefly,...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111858&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111858</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1046">MissMarilyn</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;04&nbsp;2006 at 11:49pm<br /><br />It was lovely to meet you (briefly, sorry about that!) tonight.&nbsp; Suzy is exactly right...&nbsp; harvest that grape stuff I gave you often.&nbsp; I look at it this way... as long as it has plenty of space to grow into it is sucking up extra tank nutrients and growing into that space...&nbsp; as soon as it has filled the space pull out handfuls and feed them to your tang...&nbsp; You will end up with a nice fat tang like mine :)<br><br>Please let me know if I can do anything else for you!<br><br>Marilyn<br>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 23:49:02 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : I read about adding ammonia to...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111852&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111852</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=68">Suzy</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;04&nbsp;2006 at 11:11pm<br /><br />I read about adding ammonia to a tank on one of those European websites. Seems very drastic. I think a piece of live rock cycles a tank wonderfully....]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 23:11:18 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : C. racemosa AKA grape caulerpa,...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111850&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111850</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=68">Suzy</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;04&nbsp;2006 at 11:04pm<br /><br /><em>C. racemosa</em> AKA grape caulerpa, can go dormant or begin to spore and cause trouble. Watch it and harvest it regularly.<br /><br /><br /><br />]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 23:04:46 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : Nicely said! ]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111839&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111839</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1336">newfie</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;04&nbsp;2006 at 7:18pm<br /><br />Nicely said!]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 19:18:28 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. :    lewistonbaker wrote:We talked...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111780&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111780</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1334">Kevin F</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;04&nbsp;2006 at 12:59pm<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by lewistonbaker" alt="Originally posted by lewistonbaker" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>lewistonbaker wrote:</strong><br /><br /><div>We talked with Mark Peterson today whooffered some good advice and told us of some good articles toread.&nbsp; Then Steve Burton called and generously offered to comeover and test and look over the aquarium.&nbsp; <br></div><div>&nbsp;</td></tr></table><br><br>It's great to have a community that supports each other like that. Youare very lucky. There's not to many communities like this out there.Very glad for you that things are looking up and you have a plan. <br><br>Personally I'd put the biggest fuge you can fit under there, underthere. A mix between green grape caulphera and chaetomorpha would begreat for both nutrient export, and a haven for the pods. IME greengrape will grow faster then chaeto under the same conditions, so it'sexports more of the nutrients. <br><br>I just use those $5 clip on lights from Home Depot on my refugium. Ihave some $6 dollar Compact Flourscent bulbs that work beautifully. Iused to have PC's, but cheaped out, and am having better success withthe compact flourscents. I think the color spectrum is better for themacro's and the output is higher JME. <br><br>The tanks I've seen with the Ecosystem Miracle Mud seem to utalize therefugium the best. I have a friend who runs a 120g with no filter, orskimmer, just an Ecosystem sump/refugium with the mud and some greengrape caulphera. He also has alot of rubblerock in the fuge. The tankis spectacular. He doesn't even supplement the corals, the fuge withthe mud takes care of it all. <br><br>Good Luck <br><br></div>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 12:59:15 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. :    bbeck4x4 wrote:there is no...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111779&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111779</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1334">Kevin F</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;04&nbsp;2006 at 12:51pm<br /><br /><table width="99%"><tr><td class="BBquote"><img src="forum_images/quote_box.png" title="Originally posted by bbeck4x4" alt="Originally posted by bbeck4x4" style="vertical-align: text-bottom;" /> <strong>bbeck4x4 wrote:</strong><br /><br />there is no way I would addammonia ever to my tank.<br></td></tr></table><br><br>So how do you guys test your new tanks? What do you use to cycle them? <br><br>A tank completely devoid of all life will read zero as will a tank willsufficent bacteria growth. Without a catalyst to stimulate the ammoniain the system you have no way of knowing if your tank is cycled IMO.Adding a source for ammonia waiting an hour and then getting a testreading of zero is how you know if your tank is ready to add fish. <br><br>Many people use damsel fish as there source because they are a hardyfish, will create ammonia, and sometimes even live through the process.IMO this is cruel. Buying a fish to torture it is not something I coulddo. The ammonia methods and fish food methods are far more effectiveIME anyways. Besides who wants a damsel in there tank. Those things arehard to catch and get out. <br><br>The use of pure unscented ammonia is a commonly agreed upon concept andone that many aquaculture facilities use. It is by far the safest wayto add ammonia into a new system for the purpose of seeing if thesystem has developed enough bacteria to support a bioload. Someaquaculture facilities caculate the future bioload of the system andthen add twice the amount of ammonia to the tank to ensure that thebacteria colonies are established well enough to support the futureload. <br><br>Pure unscented ammonia is considered to be the safest way to introduceammonia because it does not require the decaying of various fish foods.Thoe who stake there livelyhood on the health of there systems, as wellas hundreds of thousands of dollars, cannont risk the contamination ofa harmful bacteria being introduced by decaying food. When the fish isfreshly thawed it is at one state, but as it thaws out over time it canbecome more toxic, much the same way you would not eat a steak if youleft if on the counter for a week in 90F temperatures. It was fine whenfrozen, but not after a few days.<br><br>The biggest draw back to using pure unscented ammonia over typical fishfoods, or grocery store bought table shrimp is the method requires alarge water change of 90%. The pure unscented ammonia can reek havoicon the PH of a tank so while it is very useful in establishingbacterial colonies, it is a complete PITA in terms of the water changeon a large tank. One thing if you got a 20g, another thing if you havea 150g IMO.<br><br>The reason I suggested using frozen food instead of the pure unscentedammonia method is because he already has a cleanup crew, and the waterchange on that tank would be harsh. Personally I have no problem usingeither method, I believe both to be effective. I have used both and hadgreat results. <br><br>As far as people not wanting to add ammonia to there systems, what doyou think you are doing everytime you feed your fish. Whether the fisheats it and poos it out, or whether it falls behind a rock and rots,that food is going to turn into ammonia in your system. <br><span style="font-size:10px"><br /><br />Edited by DaMan - May&nbsp;04&nbsp;2006 at 12:52pm</span>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 04 May 2006 12:51:14 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : Thanks to all for your advice....]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111684&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111684</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=1337">lewistonbaker</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;03&nbsp;2006 at 11:15pm<br /><br />Thanks to all for your advice.&nbsp; It's been quite an education.<DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>We talked with Mark Peterson today who offered some good advice and told us of some good articles to read.&nbsp; Then Steve Burton called and generously offered to come over and test and look over the aquarium.&nbsp; We learned a lot from his visit, and apparently things are not as dire as we thought, he said he's seen worse.&nbsp; All water parameters were good (Calcium was a little low).&nbsp; The hair algae is abating a bit thanks to some good advice (ugly mermaid web artical referenced above - Thanks Mark).&nbsp; We've pulled out tons of algae by hand, and the regrowth is slowing down.&nbsp; The hermits and snails are beginning to make some noticeable difference.&nbsp; </DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Thanks to Steve we now have a plan on how to improve our refugium, overflows, water flow, aquarium look, and have a better idea on how to proceed with inverts, fish and corals.&nbsp; Today was quite and education, and we're looking forward to tomorrow nights meeting.&nbsp; </DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>Thank you to all who have offered live sand and macro algae, I think that will be the final puzzle piece that will get us set in the right direction.</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV><DIV>&nbsp;</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 23:15:09 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Novice seeking help. : Ican help. Please read this www.garf.org/ugly.html...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=11992&amp;PID=111518&amp;title=novice-seeking-help#111518</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=4">Mark Peterson</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 11992<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> May&nbsp;03&nbsp;2006 at 2:36am<br /><br />I&nbsp;can help.<DIV>Please read this <a href="http://www.garf.org/ugly.html" target="_blank">www.garf.org/ugly.html</A> and then call me to discuss the specific pros and cons of things that can be done with your particular tank.</DIV><DIV>My number is below. If long distance is a problem, call me with your number and I'll call you right back.</DIV>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 03 May 2006 02:36:33 +0000</pubDate>
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