What about that Utah Rock?
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Topic: What about that Utah Rock?
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Subject: What about that Utah Rock?
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 7:34am
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This is most commonly known here as "Utah Rock" but officially in the world of Utah Geology it's Lake Bonneville Tufa. Here is some info to help you understand just what it is and how excellently it works for us. Lake Bonneville Tufa Rock(LBTR/Utah Rock) is Calcium Carbonate, very similar to Live Rock from the ocean.  It formed by the action of marine organisms and salt water processes over hundreds of years in the depths of Lake Bonneville. Over 10,000 years ago Lake Bonneville covered most of Utah, parts of Nevada, Idaho and Wyoming. It was an inland ocean. The evidence of Lake Bonneville is quite visible. It is seen in the level terraces that ring the mountains all around us. These terraces are the old beaches and shoreline of Lake Bonneville.Utah Rock is similar in some ways to the dry rock that is mined from the ground in Florida from ancient reefs. Though not as ancient as those rocks, such as Marco Rock, Reef Savers Rock, etc., clean and sterile Utah Rock also contains and initially leaches low levels of PO4, a mineral which is easily eaten up by Macroalgae, and absorbed by PO4 removal media(AA, GFO) while in the aquarium. No special soaking or treatment is needed.  Utah Rock needs to be cleaned properly. It comes from the ground so it has dirt, roots, lichen/moss and even bugs living in it. If it is not cleaned properly with a high power water jet, problems will develop in the aquarium. Look at all that porosity.  It is even more porous than most LR. A layer of LBTR on a rock outcropping west of SLC. (The rock on this formation is too dense for our use.)  Aloha, MarksReef Coral Farm in Murray 808-345-1049
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Replies:
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 7:40am
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Isn't there already a huge topic about this? ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 8:09am
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Okay, I changed the topic. Is that better? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 8:13am
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Still seems kinda redundant imo ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 8:25am
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Maybe you saw my post in the lace rock thread before I cut and moved it to this new thread. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 9:03am
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You cover utah rock in the topic in your signature. And there are several other topics about utah rock on the forum. Nobody really asked about it, so you're just creating new topics for fun? It's not against the rules I guess, just a little odd haha Great information, just already available to anyone who reads your signature. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 1:37pm
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I thought the same thing when I saw this listed... "Omg...are we seriously rehashing Utah rock for the millionth time?" ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 1:41pm
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Oh I see what you're saying. Well, as surprising as it may seem, I meet a lot of people who have never heard of it so I figure it can't hurt and may help to bring it up in a new topic from time to time. On top of that, in the last two days I have met two couples that never heard of the WMAS. One saw my ad on ksl.com and the other I met outside a LFS. This is not uncommon. I keep WMAS business cards in my wallet. Always trying to get the word out.   ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 2:27pm
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I was at LFS up north and overheard someone saying that Utah rock has caused a lot of issues. Does anyone know of any tanks crashing that can be associated with it? I understand tanks can crash for a lot of reasons, and many probably unknown to the person that has it crash. Also, it was an LFS that sells rock for a lot versus free Utah rock so take it for what is worth. After seeing so many issues on another post about lace rock I can't help but think that rock that isn't professionally made/sold might be suspect. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 2:41pm
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Mark, I'm sure that your ads for Utah Rock on KSL and these forums present enough opportunity for newcomers to hear about it. Glad you offer that option to those who want it. Nikki, 1,023,234 if my count is correct. Marcoss, I've seen Utah rocks that leach a LOT of nutrients. Have personally tested it myself. It is far from perfect calcium carbonate. It can work in a reef, but be ready to face higher nutrient levels. The best rock for any reef is calcium carbonate, as close to pure as possible. You want it to be free of other nutrients and chemicals if you plan on maintaining water quality. No rock is pure, but Utah Rock is quite a few steps away from it. It really just depends on what your personal tastes are and what your budget affords as to which route you take. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:09pm
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There's one thread (of the 1,023,234 threads on this) where I posted up soil analysis from that area (used to do that sort of testing for my job near the sites as well to personally confirm the findings.) The areas are high in copper, selenium, chromium, cadmium, you name it. There's no way I'd use it. Sure, it works for some, but I wouldn't risk it. If you were to use it, I'd keep the pH at or above 8.4 to help prevent leaching. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:11pm
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Yeah I wouldn't use it if my life depended on it. I was just being nice and considerate haha ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:15pm
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That answers it for me. Good information from two that I have personally gotten good information from.
If I can prevent an issue from happening then I will take that route, even if its NOT more economical. I personally do not want to save money over setting something up that may or may not leach and fail down the road. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 3:37pm
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Nikki, Have you tested Oolitic sand from Utah. What was the analysis of it? Thanks Glenn ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 19 2015 at 7:34pm
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I wasn't specifically looking for the oolitic sand, so I don't know. Regardless, there are tons of geographical and pollution surveys out there showing most of the regions where the rock is found is high (naturally and unnaturally) in various heavy metals. Keep in mind that the largest open face copper mine is in the area. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 7:42am
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The comments from the two above are without basis in experience. They are simply comments made out of fear. They have never come to my place, never looked at the sand and rock I have available and never used it. Over more than a decade of using Utah Rock and sand, there are many people that have used it and continue to use it, finding that it works excellent and does not cause any problems. The naysayers will probably never try it and yet will continue to publicly condemn it. How unfortunate. Many years ago I provided some Utah sand for analysis. The thread is an old one that might be hard to find. It was compared to CaribSea Oolitic and found to contain slightly higher amounts of the very things that we normally add as supplements. The largest difference was a much higher Mg content in Utah Sand, a finding which is a great positive. The downside was slightly higher PO4 than the CaribSea sand. Of course PO4 is always getting into our aquariums via other sources so the little bit that dissolves from the sand is insignificant. Hearing and reading of a few complaints, I have always tracked them down as best I can. None of those people got their sand or rock from me and did not follow my preparation instructions. It is important that anyone who wants to use these natural resources come to me to get the right material, and to receive direction on how to properly prepare it for use. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 8:02am
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Actually Mark I purchased rock and sand from you 5 years ago, before your second round of adventures in Hawaii. I purchased three 5 gallon buckets full of the stuff. You kept it outside by the garbage pails at the time. I used a pressure hose to clean the rock at a car wash, and cured it as per your instructions. I ran Utah rock in one of my tanks for over three years. I have also collected my own, and have done testing on both. Maybe you should double check your records before publicly condemning me. Below is the reef I ran with your rock in it:  It wasn't a bad reef tank, but it struggled with phosphates and I was hard pressed to get stony corals to thrive. Both your rock, and my own collected rock contained phosphates, copper ( very common here in utah soil ), and and other trace elements which can be harmful to reef animals. Tests were conducted at Weber State University. There are very few places in the world where oolitic sand forms, and it is likely that carib-sea got their oolitic sand from Utah. Naturally the test results would be very similar. They likely strip phosphates before shipping out the sand, although I'm not 100% certain on their decontamination processes. I'm not saying Utah Rock WILL NOT WORK in a reef. It just contains higher phosphates and should be run with carbon. I personally would rather not risk it. A muriatic acid bath is probably the best way to prep Utah rock for use. A bleach bath if nothing else. See the existing topics for cleaning live rock or just pester Nikki for more info. I promised to be nice and play fair Mark, but that requires effort on your part as well. It's all good, take a deep breath. We're all friends here. 
------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 8:30am
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Who else has used this rock and sand in a tank with SPS and LPS corals? ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 8:33am
Here is a funny picture to lighten the mood :) ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 10:04am
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I used to use Utah rock (from Mark) for all the frags I would sale/trade. I don't do that much anymore, but I don't recall ever having a problem with it. I think using a small amount (by percentage) of clean, Utah rock as part of your reef would be reasonable. Stress .. clean. I don't know the statistics, but I'm guessing that any alternative to removing reef rock from the ocean for use in your aquarium would be considered a good thing. Either way, it's quite fun to watch John and Mark go at it. You two are quite the odd-couple.
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 10:39am
It's a forbidden bromance. One day we'll walk into a meeting holding hands and everyone will lose their minds. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Shane H wrote:Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 12:01pm
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Holding hands.  I don't think so, but I look forward to shaking hands with John. Though my words are sometimes brash and ill chosen, I hold no malice toward anyone.Shane is one of many hundreds of hobbyists that have used it successfully. Thanks Shane for sharing your experience. We do what we can, our little part to help protect the earth. Controlling PO4 is so common these days that I hardly even consider it. Other terrestrial based ancient reef rock sold in the hobby has been known to leach PO4 so to me it has become insignificant. I use inexpensive AA practically all the time as a secondary part of ongoing Phosphate control. I'm seeing great growth from all coral in my farm which uses 80% Utah Oolitic Sand and Utah Rock. MarksReef Coral Farm is fun for me and it's my contribution to help ordinary people enjoy this hobby in an affordable way. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 12:18pm
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I've used it successfully, and it can be used successfully. This just became a discussion as to the pros and cons. You're right, there are ways to filter out phosphates, and ways to absorb copper so it isn't an issue. Nutrients can be controlled via reactors, biofiltration and mechanical filtration. Abstinence is the best prevention however  Utah rock is acceptable, but the more pure the calcium carbonate we use the better. Then there is the conservation side of things. Shane is right, each pound of live rock left in the reefs is an extra pound of live rock for the ocean to use. Utah rock doesn't pull anything from the oceans, just the dirt. So there is that benefit. I've personally never purchased live rock, just obtained it from other hobbyists. Now can we hold hands?  ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 12:26pm
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I would have to say that I have used Utah Rock and Sand on several reef projects with no noticeable ill effects:
Below is the Build Thread for my 225g Reef. Full - on mixed reef with plenty of SPS.
At 32 pages / almost 650 replies, it has the distinction of being the biggest (longest) topic thread in WMAS history. Rather in - depth on the detail on the set up work, too; makes for a good read if you have the time. Used Utah Rock and Sand exclusively (well, I think I used 1 or 2 pieces of store - bought Live Rock to 'seed' the tank)
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24146&KW=&title=my-225g-build-thread" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24146&KW=&title=my-225g-build-thread
My 37 Hex Build Thread. Used Utah Rock and Sand again:
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31307&KW=&title=my-37g-build-thread-blog-the-end" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=31307&KW=&title=my-37g-build-thread-blog-the-end
My 93 Cube Build. Tons of SPS. Utah sand, mixed with Carribasea "sugar grained" sand. Fiji Rock, Buna Rock, Utah Rock, and a CeramEco "Vida Rock" centerpiece:
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47545&KW=&title=bobs-93-cube-reef-build-thread" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=47545&KW=&title=bobs-93-cube-reef-build-thread
So I do have a good amount of personal experience using the "utah" materials and growing all corals, including SPS.
I did not see a noticeable trend in regards to increased nutrients in the water.
I am also at odds (from a scientific perspective) with the relavance of a collection area soil test relative to determining the quality of rock deposits found in the same area. The soil and rock would have had to have been formed at approx the same geological time - and under similar geological conditions - in order for the soil analysis to be relevant, IMO.
And to be fair, I am pretty sure Carribasea, etc collect most of their generic 'reef' sands in Florida. Inland FLA, BTW...
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 12:42pm
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The song "kumbaya" is playing in my head now thanks John :) ------------- 90 gal reef w/refugium 24 gal softie tank 11 gal nano anemone tank 5 gal fresh water |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 12:46pm
I aim to please. @Bob I didn't test soil, I got a chemical analysis of the actual rock and sand. Increased nutrients can be dealt with, and ultimately it really depends on the specific rocks when push comes to shove. I've seen some nasty live rock from the store, and I've seen some awesome looking Utah Rock. I don't use Utah Rock to avoid elevated nutrient levels. It definitely can be used, not denying that. All comes down to preference. And I was incorrect, after further research CaribSea oolite is from the Bahamas. Was fun reading over that build thread again. Thanks Bob! ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 20 2015 at 10:24pm
Without basis in experience?? I used an x-ray fluorescence spectrometer to measure the chemicals in rock and sand in the Ogden, SLC, and UTTR areas. I then compared my findings to Utah state geological surveys (speaking to the authors of those surveys as well) and to EPA surveys. That's quantitative data. It doesn't lie. There is no fear involved. It's data...peer-reviewed. This is in comparison to you...a store owner...who sells the product. You are inherently biased, whether you believe you are or not. You have an agenda...to sell this rock. You have no data showing its purity. You only have user testimony. I don't care who uses it or doesn't. I don't use it in my show tank because I went with all branch and shelf rock. For all I know, I may have some in my other tanks. I wouldn't purposefully use it. If I knowingly did, I'd keep my pH at or above 8.4. My problem is that you tout your methods and products without reminding people that you have a business. You're biased. This is misleading. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 7:04am
Interesting test done by Bob between Vida and Utah rock, it starts at about page 25. Bob, looks like the tank got wet April 08 then came down early 11. Why did the tank come down? I also looked at your levels and wanted to know what you used to check Phosphate. I could only find 0 phosphate levels in that thread. I need to run GFO to keep my levels at less than .01 in a 45 gallon tank. It was also interesting to see the no Nitrate level. The tank seemed almost too low on nutriants. From the soil testing standpoint. This rock is being pulled out of the soil in most cases (correct me if I am wrong). And will absorb trace elements from the soil as that is what this type of rock does. And when I read Reefdup post I believe she tested the actual rock and soil. I could have this wrong. From the save the reef prospective there are many alternatives out there now from man made to mined inland reefs. If starting today and not wanting to use LR from a reef. What is the best rock out there?
------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 7:52am
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The 225 gallon tank came down because quite frankly, it was just too much work. The tank itself was made out of acrylic, which proved to be quite a hasslekeeping the panels free of coralline build up. Especially the rear panels near the bottom, which works for me difficult for me to access to the top of the tank. And, obviously, with an acrylic tank you can't just run a razor blade on it to remove the coralline. In addition, my wife had cancer and it flared up in early 2011 and I just could not devote the time to the tank that I had been able to previously. On the phosphate issue, for normal testing purposes I used an API kit; which I know is not very accurate. However, I did have the phosphate level results verified several times using a Hanna checker. I think it read "0.001" or something similar. For all intensive purposes, zero reading. I did run GFO on that system. The zero nitrate readings were due to running a plenum system on that tank. The thread shows the building of the Plenum within the first few pages I believe. IMO, the "best" Rock to use when you start up a new Reef tank is still your standard live rock. However, I would buy it "used" from other hobbyists in order to not only save existing natural reef systems, but you will also save me significant amount of money versus buying it commercially. It will also in most cases be more established with the bacteria and Copepods, etc. when will fresh harvested live rock from a store or online. You do run a slight risk of introducing some other hobbyists pests into your system, but that can happen even with fresh commercial live rock. Nikki's original post mention soil analysis only. My response was towards that post. I believe later on in the thread she talked about analyzing rock. I would still be of the opinion that carefully chosen Utah Rock and sand is safe. The place that I harvested my material from was nowhere near a mining operations or known deposit areas. I would agree that there are "bad" places to harvest these materials. And unfortunately, the bad places are also the easiest access places to find Utah rock and sand. So you do have to be careful. ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 8:25am
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Sorry...should've been more clear. I was analyzing soil specifically. There were some rocks, but none that I specifically targeted. If it's in the soil, it's in the rocks. I confirmed my findings with state geologists and the EPA. The levels I found were typical of Utah for those areas. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 9:27am
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This rock is fantastic, there is no reason not to use it. Long thread for no purpose. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 10:05am
Adam, Thanks for weighing in, but I disagree that it is a long thread with no purpose. I am about to make a decision on rock for my 210 gallon tank and want to make a educated decision. So it is important to me, maybe not others. Could you please provide your experience using Utah rock so people like me that have not been in the hobby for long can glean knowledge from those that have. Making the above statement without anything backing it up is what I see all over the internet and usually disregard it. Where did you collect it (don't need to give your secret place up)? Was it the only rock in your tank? What kind of levels did you experience with it? Are you still using it? In what size tank? Glenn ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 10:35am
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I've used it in many tanks for about twenty years. It's tested, used, and incredibly popular with successful hobbyists. Come over and see my tank anytime. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 10:40am
I will take you up on the visit. We live close. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 12:22pm
| I think that the look you like for aquascaping may also determine what kind of rock you may prefer to use. |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 6:36pm
I'm right off the frontage road. Super easy if you are on the East side of Farmington. I should be home tomorrow all evening, or just about any evening this week. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 21 2015 at 9:41pm
Adam's tank is absolutely gorgeous with many shades of red, purple, blue, green and yellow. He told me he doesn't like to show off, but my old friend, I want to show it off for you. If you don't like it, just tell me and I'll go jump in a lake. These crappy cell phone pics don't do it justice.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 2:41am
My 100% utah rock tank, all bought from Mark....there is nothing wrong with the stuff...
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Posted By: Jimbo
Date Posted: February 22 2015 at 9:47am
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There has been reported problems with most Dry Rock available. BRS Pukani reportedly leaches phosphates, same with the BRS Reefsaver. Same with Marco rock. Ceramico supposedly leaches phosphates and silicates and some state there was a problem with whatever was used to color the rock purple. Guess the Utah rock is no different than any of these. Like anything else, some people love it and some have nothing but problems. As far as Mark only pushing this stuff because he is selling it ? I could be wrong because I'm not involved in the club, but I'm pretty sure Mark has been advocating the use of Utah rock and sand for alot longer than he has been selling it. In fact, I think Mark is still giving the same advice in general, that he was giving 20 years ago...... |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 23 2015 at 8:45am
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Bur01014, that's a beautiful tank, full of beautiful stony coral. I agree Jimbo, except,
 If you knew me 20 years ago, I believe my advice evolved each year with increasing experience and knowledge?Does my asking for the measly amount of $0.50/lb. for Utah Rock and Sand, give some people the idea that this stuff has less intrinsic value than the other terrestrial rock available at $4/lb? Maybe, but that's okay with me. I'm trying to help make this hobby affordable for the average person while trying to recoup the costs of collecting and transporting. I'm not trying to make money on it. Yes, it requires the buyer to do the cleaning, but that's part of the DIY affordability of Utah Sand and Rock, right? Upon request, I provide cleaned Utah Sand and Rock for $1/lb, which is unbelievably cheap. Aloha, Mark
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: February 23 2015 at 10:52am
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Beautiful tanks btw! Yes people have used utah rock with success, but personally I would never use it because I simply don't like the look of it. Yes I have seen a few premium pieces, but for the most part it looks like something I dug up out of my yard. Just my opinion :) ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 5:03am
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Wait, you're digging up good Utah Rock in your yard? Maybe a new collection site? Maybe your house is in the zone; the elevation where Utah Rock naturally occurs or maybe a previous resident used it for landscaping.  I've actually seen a lot of yards with Utah Rock used for the landscaping. It's just a curious kind of rock, but it's not for everyone. Personally, I would rather use nice pieces of ocean LR, taken either from a mature reef tank or just a few days ago from the ocean, uncured. For existing tanks, I like to add the occasional piece of uncured LR for the diversity of good stuff it brings into the system like algae, bacteria, bugs, coral, sponge, tunicates, worms and more. We know very well how to deal with and remove the unwanted hitchhikers like pest anemones and rock crabs. We see wet LR available almost continually from hobbyist tanks being closed down and sold. Some of it is still prime stuff or can be re-grown into prime stuff.  Some pieces of dry rock are too awesome to pass up. Thanks to ReefdUp introducing to us a cleaning technique, we don't have to wait long to see this rock become alive and beautiful again. Aloha, Mark P.S. An old nurse (my mother) pointed out to me the other day that Muriatic Acid is Hydrochloric Acid, the same acid as in my stomach! That  fact hadn't hit me before. When used on dry LR it digests all the organic matter, leaving relatively clean Calcium Carbonate similar to clean Utah Rock, Marco Rock, Reef Savers Rock, etc. Awesome!------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 7:34am
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Maybe if we eat Utah rock we'll poop out clean Utah rock Bottom line, what I got out of this debate is: Choose the rock you think looks the best, then clean it, then use it. Ultimately what matters is that you are happy with how your reef looks. 
------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 7:39am
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It is interesting, the upcoming TOTM (Paul's 150) is all Lace Rock... And it not only looks nice, the livestock - including SPS - appear to be doing just fine... ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: superman1981
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 9:18am
That's awesome! I'm excited to see pictures of the lace rock tank, especially after there was a thread here last week telling someone not to use lace rock. ------------- Sure you are, you are Crappy Reef Club Member #1 -Chk4tix 6 gal nanocube 65 gal http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78639&title=tims-65-gallon-build" rel="nofollow - build thread |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 9:22am
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Yes, and to be very honest...
I was one who advised against using it.
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: February 24 2015 at 9:35am
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It sounds like any rock can be used as long as the person using it can clean it properly. For me, I do not know how to cure rock, etc. so I took the easier route, and bought it already done. Granted, this can come with issues, but the issues are greatly reduced if I am not the one in charge of doing it. It seems like the pros/people who know how to treat rock succeed with it and the others who buy it to save money and are not as diligent about taking care of it are probably not as likely to succeed. Thats what I took away. Based on how some people are doing well I think Utah rock can work, its just a matter of doing it correctly. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: TJAy
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 12:57am
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I just started my first reef tank thanks to mark and Utah rock/sand. The idea of paying hundreds of dollars for rocks/sand is still really weird to me.... and was something that stopped me from starting up a tank. My experience with mark hasn't lead me to believe he is even in this to make money at all. Considering i left with more things than i remember and I think he charged me for 1/10 of it. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 5:39pm
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Tanks to all for the kind words. I can share the value, because I run it as a "dirt farm" using baling wire and duct tape to hold things together. Watch out though, I'm an old grandpa with an attitude. Aloha, MarksReef Coral Farm 808-345-1049 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Deluxe247
Date Posted: March 23 2015 at 8:24pm
Isn't that basically how a lot of reef and beach sand is formed, by fish chomping on stony corals and then "depositing" fine, clean sand? ------------- 90G Mixed Reef |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 27 2015 at 2:42pm
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There are various ways that sand is formed. Yes, Parrotfish eating stony coral and excreting the pulverized skeleton is one way. Decomposition of Halimeda and other calcarous algae is another. Oolitic sand forms like hail, with successive layers of Calcium Carbonate forming around a seed particle. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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