Official Bacterial Driven Thread
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Topic: Official Bacterial Driven Thread
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Subject: Official Bacterial Driven Thread
Date Posted: October 31 2010 at 9:06pm
LOL I like putting official in the title, sounds like I know what I'm talking about.  Now for the serious part. I have been studying this system for well over a year now, probably close to 2. I have seen some awesome tanks that employ this style of reefing. It is a great way to run your tank closer to Natural Sea Water if that is what you prefer. I am just going to post the BEST manual I have found thus far. Here is the link: http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/general-sps-discussion/41018-microbacter7-vodka-dosing-guide.html - http://www.reef2reef.com/forums/general-sps-discussion/41018-microbacter7-vodka-dosing-guide.html MicroBacter7/Vodka dosing guide So, I am sure by now many of you have heard of people dosing vodka and bacteria into their systems. You first thought may have been "what" or "why", but I am here to help explain the reasons behind why those of us who do dose vodka do so. Let me start by saying I am not an expert on the subject. I am not a scientist and cannot get into the intricate details of how and why the dosing of vodka works. I can however tell you what has worked for me and give you a general idea of how vodka dosing aids ones system. Please keep in mind that this dosing system is not without risks. You can wipe out your system if the proper procedures are not followed. Before reading what I have to say below be sure to check out the links below: (This will give you a general idea on how much vodka to dose) http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php - Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com (This is a simple overview of the vodka dosing trend in this hobby) http://www.qualitymarine.com/News/Feature-Articles/Gimme-a-Vodka%2C-on-the-Live-Rocks%2C-with-a-Splash-of-Heavy-Skimming.-%2803/30/10%29 - Gimme a Vodka, on the Live Rocks, with a Splash of Heavy Skimming. (03/30/10) / Feature Articles - Quality Marine Basically, the ethanol in vodka feeds bacteria in your aquarium which in turn multiply. When the bacteria multiplies it consumes N03 and P04. The bacteria, along with the nutrients it has consumed is then exported by a large protein skimmer. The bacteria, in this case MB7, is added in order to keep the bacteria diversified and help stave off red slime. You can dose vodka alone but I wouldn't recommend it. When I first setup my current tank I had been adding Microbacter7 from Brightwell aquatics. While this help the tank I wasn't all that impressed. It wasn't until I started dosing vodka that things really took off. Within a month of dosing vodka I no longer had to use GFO. Within 3 months I actually had to add Amino Acids and feed the tank more as it had become "too clean". The corals had lightened up and actually stopped growing. After cutting back a bit on the vodka dosage and adding more food the corals once again took off. Please note that you MUST have a sufficient sized skimmer and proper aeration to employ this dosing system. Reefers have crashed their setups by not running a skimmer or having proper flow/aeration. Here are some things I have observed when dosing MB7/vodka: PROS -My skimmer is pulling out more gunk then ever -My water is even clearer now -Polyp extension in corals has greatly increased -Coral growth has exploded. Within two weeks of dosing I have counted 36 new, small coral heads coming out of my large mille. -The sand bed is whiter. -Glass and overflow box stay cleaner longer. -Coraline algae has begun to show up on pumps and over flow. CONS -Some corals have lightened up even more. -Red slime is appearing in spot it hasn't before. -Bacteria is making my sand bed clumpy, so I have to gravel vac it twice a month. Is vodka dosing for everyone? No. But for these of you willing to take the time to understand and implement this system it can change the way you go about reef keeping. The system is simple and cost effective, allowing you to achive near ocean like water quality without the use of expensive GFO or refugiums. If you decide to dose MB7/Vodka here are some helpful tips: MB7 (Bottle Instructions.) + Vodka (or carbon) Dosing - http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2008-08/nftt/index.php - Vodka Dosing by 'Genetics' and 'Stony_Corals' - Reefkeeping.com ========================= Probiotic Reef Keeping. Time to dose = during lights on seems best. MB7 into the display. Vodka into the sump. Rules 1) Need a good skimmer Noticed in Water testing 1) high nitrates = increase vodka as per instructions. 2) no Nitrate/Po4 change in LONG time = try another carbon source like vinegar, sugar, biofuel... 3) low nitrates = maintain till 0 then reduce to maintenance levels of vodka 4) Increase in Alk = stop dosing Cal / alk, test water change h20 for alk level. Decrease with large water changes and/or chemicals if it gets bad. Corals may stop taking Cal/ALK while getting used to Probiotic system & increased light. 4) new tank/build = follow instructions, stay close to the low side of dosing. 5) Phosphate being high = a round of GFO Noticed in Algae/Bacteria Reaction 1) Bacterial Blooms (slimy white strings) = too much bacteria, decrease vodka dosing. 2) algae on glass after increase of MB7 = reduce MB7 :P 3) brown dusting or brown hair like stuff = decrease MB7 (also check http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/2009/04/dinoflagellates-and-the-treament-of.html - http://www.rimlessreef.com/1/post/20...eament-of.html ) 4) cyano = increase MB7 and/or lower/stop vodka dose. After the cyano has gone away restart the vodka from the initial or maintenence dose. If it's really bad consider a "lights out" period. If really really bad consider "Red Slime Remover." 5) peach fuzz = stop or decrease (especially vodka) dosing for a while (about a week or till the fuzz dies off) then start back up with the maintenance dose. OR This may also just go away in time. 6) glass and sand getting dirtier = dose more/feed less Noticed in Live Stock Reaction 1) Corals losing color = more feeding, possibly Amino Acids, lower photo period an hour for a while. 2) Corals Burnt Tips = check alkalinity..get it to 7-8 dKH by stop dosing alk...maybe stop dosing EVERYTHING if it gets bad. 3) Monti caps bleaching = Cut the vodka dosage in half and stay there until the cap starts to color up and/or lower the lighting photoperiod for a bit or have a light "day off." 4) Everything dies = Blame the wife, kids, or something other than your own possible mistakes  )Other 1) substrate hardening = keep it broken up and siphoned with water changes. Maintain a good high PH of 8.1 - 8.3 Another great link is http://www.rimlessreef.com/ - http://www.rimlessreef.com/ That is about the best place I can tell you to start reading and researching. That is taken from a guy named Sonny out of Michigan. His tanks are absolutely gorgeous and he has changed the way a lot of people look at this method including me. Now if you go ask people about this method, they will tell you that you will kill your tank and that is the worst idea in the world. To those people I say, "Have you tried this method? Have you even researched this method or are you just believing what people say?" I will post my experience in the next post and what I have modified over the last 7 months. DISCLAIMER: ANYTHING THAT HAPPENS TO YOUR TANK, IS YOUR OWN FAULT. I AM NOT RESPONSIBLE IF YOU DON'T FOLLOW THE RULES.
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Replies:
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: October 31 2010 at 9:28pm
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Great thread and thank you very much for the info Ryan! ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: October 31 2010 at 10:58pm
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Nice Ryan! I'm going to start this soon, but I need a few more hours of research and a trip to the liquor store
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Posted By: Nick801
Date Posted: October 31 2010 at 11:36pm
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I'm curious the methods/which amino acids are being used?
anyone have an article on this? ------------- http://www.reefinsanity.com" rel="nofollow - www.ReefInsanity.com http://www.facebook.com/ReefInsanity" rel="nofollow - www.Facebook.com/ReefInsanity 801-680-4676 |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: October 31 2010 at 11:41pm
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Boy, I dunno? I read it and its intruguing, but I just dont know. Im going to have to read this again tomorrow when im not so tired. Afew concerns right from the start is how good of a skimmer do you really need? My skimmer pulls about 1/4 cup of gunk a day. Is that good enough? And does this system do away with water changes? What about the other elements in the salt that feeds the tank? Also I worry about all my fish and inverts. Not to mention the thousands of tiny brittle stars, pods, and microlife I have in there that you cant even really see. If I killed them by feeding a bacteria bloom that sucked all the O2 out of the water, I would feel so bad! On the other hand, the sps in those tank pics are unbelievable! Oh man, Im going to have to study more into this... ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Nick801
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 12:11am
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^ from one of those articles linked above this is quoted:
"I always recommend performing weekly or bi-weekly water changes of 10 to 20%, respectively. It seems very reasonable to assume that such regular water changes should be maintained if vodka supplementation is instituted. " so still plan on doing water changes Jeff ------------- http://www.reefinsanity.com" rel="nofollow - www.ReefInsanity.com http://www.facebook.com/ReefInsanity" rel="nofollow - www.Facebook.com/ReefInsanity 801-680-4676 |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 12:21am
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I am currently running my system using a large amount of charcoal and the hiatt right now bacteria. It sounds kind of similar to the vodka dosing, except it uses charcoal for the carbon source, and the right now for the bacteria. I am very new to vodka dosing, or the hiatt system, maybe you can explain the differences, pros/cons, or if there is nothing in common, and I am just confused... Thanks
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Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 1:15am
| I have my doubts as to why you would want to use this system. This is mainly because I've read about as many failures as success stories from this system. I have other reasons, BUT I don't doubt it can be successful, I know it can even though I haven't done it myself just because it makes sense. I just like a system that is extremely stable and allows for some laziness. Also, claims like "my skimmer is pulling out more gunk than ever" as a PRO. I can toss a bunch of junk in my system and it will cause a skimmer to pull that gunk out in a lot of activity, but that is not a pro to tossing junk in my tank. I guess there is not too much point to me going on about this here, except to say that if you don't understand why this system does any good, at the biological level, you probably shouldn't try it. I personally like other methods for everything this accomplishes. |
Posted By: fishoutawater
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 1:43am
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Isn't the pellet system safer, and just as effective? With far less maintenance? You still need an "adequate" skimmer though. ------------- Some day, when I grow up,... |
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 6:32am
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I would think so, seems to me like pellets would be less risky, and you wouldnt have to worry about dosing every day. They accomplish the same thing right? ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 8:55am
They recommend using a skimmer that can handle 3-4x your tank size. Fore example my skimmer is rated for a 150 gallon tank. I have somewhere between 45-50 gallons of totalt water volume. If done right, you won't have a bacterial bloom. I still have micro fauna and brittle stars in my tank. That is why a good skimmer is recommended, to keep the O2 levels up. You also need the skimmer to pull out nitrates and phosphates that the bacteria consumes.
I would say they have similarities but aren't that close. The bacteria method is about the only thing they have in common. Charcoal or Activated Carbon is not a carbon source like ethanol (Vodka), sucrose (table sugar) or vinegar.
The ONLY failures I have seen are all user error. I don't know how adding some vodka and bacteria is adding a bunch of junk to my tank. The bacteria eats nitrates and phosphates, the vodka is food for the bacteria. When the bacteria has done its job, the skimmer pulls out the waste. I have been adding bacteria for almost 2 weeks now and I can't believe how much more stuff is being pulled out by my skimmer. I have yet to find another method that even comes close to accomplishing what this method can. From weekly water changes, good refugiums, to algae scrubbers. Nitrates and Phosphates tend to build up in all of the above systems from my experience. Eventually our tanks have a single strand of bacteria that becomes dominant (might be more than one but you get the point). By adding in a bacteria source, you multiply and diversify your bacteria load.
Pellets have shown to work quite well, maybe too well. I have actually read quite a few issues with the pellets. People add the recommended amount and it is too much for their system. They want the pellets to be a one size fits all program and it just doesn't work in this hobby. I personally like this system for me because I can control how much bacteria and Vodka enters my tank. When I start seeing some stringy stuff grow on my overflow, it means I am dosing too much vodka. So I don't dose for a couple days and the bacteria strings subside. At that point my snails have found the jackpot of food and eat it up like crazy. I then lower my vodka dose and continue on as planned.
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Jeffs_little_ocean wrote:Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 9:05am
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Thanks For the answers. This is interesting for sure.
When you say "pellet system" what does that refer to? Thanks
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 10:34am
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Ryan mentioned white stringy stuff being an indicator of too much carbon food being added so that the tank starts growing too much bacteria. This reminds me of a couple of tanks out in South Jordan that have that problem. They are not being dosed with any carbon food but have because of more polluted water and slight overfeeding for a long time, have developed into more like bacterial driven systems on their own. The principle behind this bacterial driven method is to overfeed with the pure food that bacteria thrive on. Fish foods are not exactly pure bacterial foods or we could do the same thing without the Vodka/sugars. When there are more bacteria, any source of food is going to be eaten very quickly. This is why these systems show extremely low N levels. Simply said, the overpopulation of bacteria eats every last "morsel" in sight. Of course this means that there are a lot more dieing bacteria (bacteria life span is measured in days). The dieing bacteria need to be skimmed out. As a caution, the major problem comes when the dosing is missed or something interferes and the overpopulation of bacteria starve/die-off quickly. This system is also dependent on one specific source of biofiltration, the bacteria. Any biological system, especially one as complicated as a reef aquarium, that depends on one source of biofiltration is more at risk. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 11:52am
You have to over-skim the tank due to the increase in bacterial population that you are artificially causing by dosing the carbon source. The carbon essentially causes a diverse bacterial bloom that consumes everything in the tank including your detritus and keeps your levels in check. Unfortunately because you have increase bacteria you are going to have increase bacterial die-off which is what the skimmer pulls out of the tank. Which is why you have more junk coming out of the skimmer. The skimmer isn't magically pulling out more stuff from the water that wasn't there before, there's more bio material in the water due to the bacteria you add and feed for the skimmer to pull out. What can happen if you don't dose for a time period? Like if you go away for the weekend and just leave the tank? I ask because I'm wary of a system that requires constant maintenance. To me, that's not a stable system because like you said..... user error can cause tank crashes and with a system like that user error is almost a given at some point in the tanks life. ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 12:21pm
I agree that it is user error, but my point was that it's easier to have user error with this system. Simply said, it requires more attention.
About my comment with the skimmer not being a plus, it was more the way it was said than the core of what was trying to be said. He should have said the plus is nutrient export that just happens to be through the skimmer.
I haven't had the problems you mention with the other systems you describe. Sometimes I wonder if I have too much nutrient export or if I don't feed enough. I read a study that suggested over skimming will lower pod production. I like a system with very diverse life. I try to make a naturally whole system. I see the people who tend to try this system mainly care about SPS.
I'm glad you have success with this system. If it creates a system that you enjoy, that is awesome and that is all that matters.
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Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 1:08pm
Someone brought this up in that forum posted above. Apparrently if you stop dosing altogether it wont really mess anything up. Your tank should stay just fine and you can pick back up where you left off when you get back. Ill see if I can pull up this post when I get home |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 2:56pm
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Matt hit in on the head. You can leave on vacation and not worry about the tank. It won't crash because you're not dosing.
You just can't come back though and dump in all the vodka you missed. I actually dose less when I return and slowly build back up. I've been on vacation four times since I started dosing vodka. I've never had an issue with it. There is still plenty of other bio filtration going on in my tank. I don't dose vodka every day or at the amounts some others do. When I get home from work I'm gonna post my routine and modifications to the system. |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 4:31pm
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Ecobak worked great for me! ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 5:10pm
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Here is my quick rundown of how I run my tank.
What I dose and how often: MB7 - 1 drop, maybe 2, daily Alk - 5-10mL (BRS 2 part), daily Calcium - 10 mL (BRS 2 part), daily Magnesium - 30-40 mL (BRS 2 part), weekly Strontium - a pinch, 2-3 times a week Vodka - 1 drop per 30 gallons of water, 3 times a week Lugol's Solution - 1 drop, 2 times a week AquaVitro Fuel - one inner capful, maybe every other week right now Water Changes - H2Ocean salt mixed to 1.0264 or 35ppt, once a month That is what works for me right now. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 7:33pm
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I respect what you are doing but that's 3x more than I did, even when I was coral farming. Why spend effort where it's not needed? Maybe you like to tinker? Okay, that makes sense. And before Jeff says anything, all types of SPS grew fantastically and had great color in the Refugium, no skimmer system with 4 hours direct sunlight. But I'll be watching this carefully and if it looks like the effort is worth it in increased growth, when I resume coral farming, I may end up using a modification of this system.  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 7:39pm
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I've been thinking about running biopellets on my 180, I'd really like to completely eradicate nitrates and phosphates. They are quite low, but they do creep up over a couple months. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 8:42pm
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Im totally doing it. Went to the liquor store, bought a 5th of smirinoff, couple drops for the tank, couple shots for me....Wow tank looks better than ever ...amazing colors!...burp..hickup...belch....thud! ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 9:22pm
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...okay on alittle more serious note, this thread is a great read, and I think once I get a better skimmer, I will probably give it a go. Looking at the breakdown Ryan posted on the dosing regiment, it doesnt look too bad. A small price to pay for growth like that.
So as I have read through this thread, it seems alot of people are kind of interested in running pellets. David wondered if it's safer? Jeff said he used ecobak and liked it, and Steve is thinking about biopellets. Could someome at least tell me what they are? Are they pellets that disolve, like a pill? Or if not, do you run them in a sock, or a canister filter? I know using pellets should probably be its own thread, but it seems alot of people are curious. ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 9:43pm
I think this is a great thread idea 
I've never done vodka but the concept is intriuging
But please put some pictures in - both of the corals and maybe some "how to"pics ------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 10:06pm
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Jeff- Biopellets are a digestible biopolymer that serves as the carbon source for the bacteria. So instead of feeding them ethanol and growing the bacteria in your entire system, you are only growing them in the media reactor. So it's more contained and less maintenance because you don't need to dose your carbon source daily. You do still need a good skimmer, and the outflow from the reactor should be put near the inflow for your skimmer to remove the excess bacterial growth. But overall it is safer because you have less risks of bacterial bloom, and much less risk of crash from overdosing. Because with pellets you start with a little and then add more until you see your nitrates and phosphates hit 0. I plan on running them in conjunction with my refugium just to remove the nitrate and phosphate that the macro algae misses. That way I'll still have plenty of pods for my fish to eat. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: November 01 2010 at 11:43pm
| Just ordered my microbacter7 :) |
Posted By: kody72
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:19am
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i've been using the kz line for 2 weeks now and all i can say is wow it's awesome ------------- http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=60612&title=kody72-fishroom" rel="nofollow - KODY72 FISHROOM BUILD 281g DT 187g Rimless Frag ATI PM lighting SRO DSCR-300ext 8013908179 |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 2:38am
| I want to knock on wood, but I'm a month into MB7 and Vodka and all I can say is "WOW"!. Coral growth and colors are taking off. 3 corals, in particular, have had zero growth in almost 6 months and in the last month they have grown at least 30 - 50% respectively and for the rest of my corals, it's just short of craziness. It's truly a breakthrough in reefkeeping from what I can gather. To sum it all up in one sentence, "I now have planktonic growth in my tank for corals to feed on 24/7" (and my water is twice as clear to boot). |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 8:53am
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Seems to me that pellets would be better than manual dosing for the continuity and stability. If used to handle an increased bioload of fish the continuous source would keep parameters constant, right?
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 9:48am
| I think it probably would be easier and more hands off with the ecobak pellets. Correct me if I am wrong but their website says that they are safe to use with a media bag as they are not water soluble / will dissolve as the bacteria eats it away. I'm still trying to decide if I want to go straight to vodka dosing or use these pellets, but I'm kind of leaning towards the liquid only because I like to tinker with things. Though at $20 for enough to treat 50 gallons the pellets are intriguing to say the least |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 10:10am
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I guess the question would be, can you get these type of results from the pellets: Aparently these pics were taken 5 months apart with MB7/Vodka dosing.... Wow!   ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:18pm
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One note of strong warning. You must test A LOT when starting this method. As mentioned, the tank's demand for ALK and Ca will change (in my case it lessened) while the system adjusts to the probiotic system.
Had I not been testing thoroughly, my ALK would have shot through the roof and my Ca was rising rapidly as well. I had to greatly adjust my doser downward over the course of a month. The demand for each of these is just now starting to rise again.
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Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:28pm
Apparently, the drawbacks or criticism of the pellets is that they keep the carbon source and the majority of the bacterial colonization isolated to just the reactor in which they are located (by the way, I don't think a media bag would work well for them as they are supposed to tumble quite heavily in a reactor to keep from clumping).
From what I've gathered with Vodka, VSV, VGV, etc., the carbon source is introduced into the entire system and thus the bacterial is better able to colonize on the live rock, substrate, etc. This, in turn, makes the bacteria more readily available as a food source for the corals.
Also, from what I've read, this system was originated with the goal of providing this planktonic food source to corals as opposed to reducing nitrates and phosphates. The latter was more of a benefit that was stumbled upon in the process.
It's still quite a pioneering method (especially the pellets) so it will be interesting to see what comes of it all in the years ahead. It's certainly not for everyone as it does require diligence, but for me, that's part of the hobby that I like.
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 12:29pm
Great point! I don't test for nitrates or phosphates as I know they are both already low but I've noticed my phosphates are dropping because the algae on my glass isn't growing as quick. I do test weekly for alk and calcikum though. I need to get a magnesium test kit now so I can test more regularly. |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 02 2010 at 8:26pm
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A great article about probiotic systems:
http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/probiotics-demystified - http://www.coralmagazine-us.com/content/probiotics-demystified
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Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 06 2010 at 10:04am
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I have been reading more on this method... and have one very big concern with it, and I may even have the same concern with the method I am using since it is bacterial based.
What happens if the power goes out? I have read through most of sunny's thread (linked to somewhere), and at one point someone tried this method without a skimmer and all his fish died (due to the bacteria using all the oxygen). And another guy took his skimmer off for a couple hours to clean it. See what happens to his pH during this time:  I am still reading, and am no expert, but that is a little scary to me..... maybe wen need a power backup to be safe... |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 06 2010 at 11:00am
| Those ph jumps aren't scary. Pretty normal from what I've seen. If it was jumping between like 7.8 and 8.4 then I would worry. |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 06 2010 at 11:31am
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I know that isn't too bad, but his skimmer was only off for a couple hours or so. What would happen if it was off for say 6 or 12? Several years ago we had a power outage that lasted a little over a day. It was caused by a fire that hit a power station or something. I am just seeing in the chart that it was dropping fast until that protein skimmer got plugged back in. Do you think it would bounce back up if you left the skimmer off for a day? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 06 2010 at 3:54pm
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ORP changes throughout the day to my knowledge. Depends on fish and coral uptake.
No matter which system you run, if power goes out you need to stir your tank with a stick and create some aeration. You can even throw in an air stone for a while to keep oxygen going. If my power were to go out right, I wouldn't dose anything to my tank until power came back on. Your oxygen will take a hit but with some added flow from the user, things should be okay. Power outages are the scariest thing to me in this hobby. |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 06 2010 at 4:32pm
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Thanks... Yes, no matter what system you are using, a power outage is scary...
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Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 10:03am
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Just a small update. I have been dosing Microbacter7 and Aquavitro Fuel for 5 days now. I started dosing vodka. But read that you should wait two weeks before dosing vodka if you start mb7
Levels as follows Nitrates/nitrites no readable levels phosphates no readable levels I will start dosing for a low nutrient system after the two week period. I have month old Marco rock and figure I should bolster my Bio filtration as specified on the bottle. Acro is growing nicely, getting some good polyp extension. Birdsnest is coloring up nicely, Chalices I bought at the reef fest are showing great growth (for chalices) and my other corals are doing great as well |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 10:20am
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 10:41am
| Did you measure you nitrates and phosphates before you started? |
Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 10:42am
When I wrote that I almost said unless you are Mark.... But then I thought it might even be scary for you to loose your powerhead....LOL
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Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: November 09 2010 at 11:26am
I should have but I didn't. I didn't expect that my levels were bad as I wasn't seeing any negative signs and everything was already doing well in my tank. Ill do some more testing when I start up vodka again next week . |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 9:15am
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Davidwillis
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 9:35am
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simple is genius...
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Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 4:13pm
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So 3 days into MB7 dosing something kind of strange is happening. My suncoral which has always been closed all day long and only opens up to be spot fed when the lights go out at night is now open all day long. Interesting... ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 4:46pm
Awesome! |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 5:23pm
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so i dont know if it was in this thread i read it or one of those links someone posted.....but
Isnt the true reason they started dosing this way is for feeding (planktonic) and the lower nitrates and phosphates was just an upside to this. |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 10 2010 at 5:58pm
I believe you are correct sir. I start my pellets on Monday. I'm going with Brightwell Aquatics Katalyst pellets, and a combination of MB7 and Probidio Bio Digest. I'm looking forwars to keeping more NPS, and making my goniopora even healthier. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 4:29pm
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can you just does mb7 and not vodka?.... and get anywhere near the same effects, cause i am assuming the bacteria (mb7) would still go into your tank and eat up certain stuff
also i keep hearing people say that you can just stop dosing with no harm? how is this possible? i would imagine if your dosing a carbon source, and then a bacteria to eat that carbon. that your tank would become somewhat dependent |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 5:53pm
Yes you can dose just MB7 but I doubt you will get the same results. You will more than likely still see positive results in the end. My guess is you would have to dose more MB7 to compensate. I wouldn't just stop cold turkey. I would slowly lean off of dosing. This method is unnatural. I would actually say it is more natural than just about any other method. It involves everything naturally found on the reefs. Bacteria eating up phosphates and nitrates and then exporting the nutrients. I don't see why I would ever stop dosing but if that day comes, I will slowly lower the dosing. |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 6:24pm
| Well I mean more like when I go out of town for like a week and don't want to trust someone else putting vodka in my tank.... stuff like that |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 7:03pm
------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 11 2010 at 7:33pm
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You will be fine leaving the tank for a week without dosing. I have been on 4 vacations since I started dosing vodka and my tank has been just fine.
I also don't dose Vodka daily so my tank would really only miss a couple doses of vodka and I can add bacteria before I leave. Then just continue my dosing when I get home. |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 2:33pm
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My Katalyst pellets, MB7, and Probidio should be here Monday or Tuesday. I'm excited to get it going. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 4:54pm
If dosing can be skipped, this says to me that the current dosing schedule is more than needed. Are you sure the dosing isn't for you instead of the tank? Take that as a challenge if you like. I think most hobbyists are simply enamored with Vodka.  There are many other sources of carbon that are safer and less expensive. Two in particular come to mind; vinegar and brown sugar. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 5:48pm
The recommended dosing is not too much for a system. Everything varies on the individual system. I know my nutrients are already low and therefore I don't need to dose as much Vodka. I would highly recommend reading the links, Mark. I'm sure you have but do it again. A lot of the questions you pose, are answered in those links. Sugar and Vinegar are used to dose tanks. It is called VSV dosing. Some theories are that certain strands of bacteria do better when sugar is added and other strands like Vinegar more. There are a couple issues to vinegar and sugar. Purity first off and that vinegar can drastically lower your pH. Vodka is about as pure as things come and I find it to be the safest route. Vodka doesn't appeal to me because it is vodka, it appeals to me because I have studied the different dosing methods and found Vodka to have the most pro's. |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 6:02pm
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For me what interest me is the planktonic feeding it enables.... and having lowered nitrates and phospastes will be the plus for me.
I plan on only dosing vodka once a week(on Tuesday since I am usually always home on Tuesday)and dosing mb7 on tues and wed... should that work out well? Since I. Only really want it for feeding, I figure once a week should be fine... could be wrong Ryan, is there any amount of time that you are supposed to wait before adding mb7 after vodka? And mark I am not that thrilled about sharing my vodka, just means less goes in my weekly dosing requirements...lol
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 6:08pm
You can dose MB7 once a week no problem. They actually have instructions for that on the bottle. I add my MB7 and Vodka at the same time. I dose the MB7 into the display and the vodka into the sump by my return. For the MB7 I get a cup and add tank water to it, then I add my MB7 and dump it in by my Vortech. For Vodka I just use a dropper and put a couple drops into my sump right by the return pump. |
Posted By: Ahanix
Date Posted: November 12 2010 at 6:43pm
| In addition to this, if you are asking about the point of time where you should start dosing vodka after you dose MB7 the magic number seems to be two weeks, after the initial dosing period of the MB7. This is really just a safety net (From what I have read) from people getting stuff like Cyano. I've dosed MB7 for a week (Half of what the bottle suggests) and started dosing vodka again last night with some really awesome results in chalice, birdsnest and monti growth / coloration |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 9:17am
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So I started up my pellet system today about an hour ago. There are still a few small clumps of pellets but overall they are pretty well fluidized. I'm sure over the next few hours the remaining clumps will separate and begin tumbling separately. I am using Brightwell Aquatics Katalyst pellets along with MB7 and Probidio Biodigest dosing. So in keeping with the instructions on the katalyst bottle I added 12cc's of MB7 to my tank, and directed the outflow of my reactor towards my skimmer intake. My controller will watch for any drops in pH and my skimmer will be running a little wet just in case (speaking of which I need to empty the cup ...) I'll be starting a photo thread of my progress, but thought I'd post I took the plunge, now if all goes well I can sit back (figuratively speaking) and watch the excess nutrients vanish! ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 10:01am
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Steve, according to the guidelines on the mb7 bottle, it is recommended that you turn your skimmer off for 4 hours after the addition of mb7. Otherwise yes it will run VERY wet, whether you want it to or not. Well at least my skimmer does when I first turn it back on. Im about a week into mb7 @ 10 ml/day. Also please let us know if you do see a ph drop. I dont have a controller so I have been curious as to how the developing bacterial biofilm affects ph. ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 10:33am
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I don't turn my skimmer off when I dose my MB7. Skimmer pumps aren't meant to be turned on and off every day. Whether it does any real damage to the pump, I don't know but that is just what I have read and studied.
The only thing that happens with my skimmer is I get a TON of foam in the collection cup and it takes a long time for the bubbles to pop. My collection cup is collecting 2x what it used to since I started adding MB7 to my tank. I recommend not turning your skimmer off for dosing but that is just me. |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 10:37am
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How big of a tank do you have jeff? Cause the mb7 bottle says for the first 2 weeks for med -high nutirent tanks does 5 ml(one cap) per 25 gallons per day... maybe I read that wrong.
But the mb7 doesn't seem to affect ph much, at least not yet.... my orp drops a little till I kick the skimmer back on |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 10:42am
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I have a 65 gallon minus rocks = about 50 gallons of water. So yes (2) 5 ml caps daily for 2 weeks. And Ryan, Im just trying to follow the instructions on the bottle. ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 11:00am
| Nice... and ya I am just following the bottle too... to me it would seem that if you don't turn off your skimmer it will just pull all the bacteria out before it has any chance to do anything. Cause the second I turn on my skimmer it pulls out a ton. And same with uv, would just kill the bacteria |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 2:17pm
| At those levels you guys are seeding with (5ml per 50 gallons), it will get established with or w/o the skimmer on. It will penetrate into the substrate, live rock, etc. Sure, some will get pulled out, but those are large amounts being added daily. Billions and billions of individual bacteria....there is no way it will all pass directly in front of the intake of your skimmer (and even then it won't all get skimmed out) before it has a chance to establish somewhere else in the system. |
Posted By: Nick801
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 4:58pm
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Well down to non readable phosphates in both my tanks starting to notice some great coral growth again
------------- http://www.reefinsanity.com" rel="nofollow - www.ReefInsanity.com http://www.facebook.com/ReefInsanity" rel="nofollow - www.Facebook.com/ReefInsanity 801-680-4676 |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 5:00pm
Nice Nick! What all are you using (Vodka, MB7, aminos, etc)?
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 5:01pm
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So no pH drop today thus far, I'm actually following the instructions on the katalyst bottle. They are a little different than the ones on the MB7 but I'm sure it could work either way. My skimmer did pull a little more than usual but not a crazy amount. I'm sure it will pick up though as I continue dosing. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: jdskidawg
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 5:05pm
how long have you been dosing? ------------- 150 in the works 8g Biocube,minijet 606,par38 led and Intank media tower,koralia nano |
Posted By: Nick801
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 5:13pm
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I guess I've been dosing 2 or 3 days before the mwrf
and honestly I've had about .40-.50 on my phosphate test nearly every time I tested for about 5-6 months it was really starting to stunt growth in my 210 I'm using mb7 and reef biofuel but when the biofuel runs out I'll most likely just switch to vodka I used a bit of aminos but haven't been keeping up on those very much ------------- http://www.reefinsanity.com" rel="nofollow - www.ReefInsanity.com http://www.facebook.com/ReefInsanity" rel="nofollow - www.Facebook.com/ReefInsanity 801-680-4676 |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 5:15pm
Whoa! Yeah, that would do it.
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 5:58pm
I was gonna say this exact same thing but had to go to work this morning. I don't follow the instructions on the bottle because my tank is different then anyone else's. Just like jcom's tank is different and Jeff's tank is different. I don't care for instructions on bottles of anything I dose. I don't follow any of them. You guys that are dosing the high nutrient dosage need to be VERY careful. If you lower your nutrients too quick, you will wipe out your tank. A gradual decrease is the best way to go IMO. I would definitely recommend cutting your dosages in half at this point. The only time I would follow the high nutrient dosage is when I would be seeding a brand new tank. Especially if I set it up with Marco Rock or Utah Rock. |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:09pm
Not to mention the added oxygen depletion that much added bacteria may cause.
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Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:31pm
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I understand the whole lowering nutrients too quick... but isn't the whole idea behind this is to dose a carbon, then that consumes nitrates and phosphates, then the bacteria(mb7) consumes the carbon, then you skim it out so that the carbon and bacteria come out. Or become food for corals. I feel if I skim out the bacteria before it consumes the carbon, we have a problem. I may be way off base, so correct me if I am wrong.
Plus isn't it the carbon that is going to make a tank crash, or not getting out the bacteria fast enough before it dies (which I am sure bacteria has a greater life span then 2-4 hours).... and isnt mb7 just enzymes,aerobic, and anaerbic microbes, which to me seems like a lot less of a threat then the carbon I will be putting in( and when I start dosing carbon I don't plan to turn off my skimmer the days I dose vodka) To me it just seems safer to make sure that the bacteria eats all the carbon before I pull the bacteria out with a skimmer. Once again, could be wrong, that just sounds logical in my head |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:39pm
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The bacteria actually consume nitrates and phosphates but need a carbon source to do so. Your skimmer is removing the excess biofilm from the water. The concern is that aerobic bacteria use oxygen, so if you have way too many bacteria they deplete your water of oxygen and suffocate everything else. At least that is my understanding. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:44pm
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The bacteria you are adding is eating the nitrates and phosphates. Carbon doesn't eat nutrients.
I can't remember what link that talks about the actual science going on but I will try to summarize what I can. Disclaimer: I am paraphrasing and going off the top of my head. Some things may be off a little bit. Carbon is a molecule that can "attach" itself to other molecules. When this happens the molecules become large enough to be skimmed out. Skimmers don't remove nitrates and phosphates, they remove the items that cause nitrates and phosphates. By adding the bacteria you are adding a predator that is preying on the nutrients. The carbon source "feeds" the bacteria so it becomes bigger and can be skimmed out of your tank. I remember reading a link from Shawn (Aquatica) that it will take a protein skimmer anywhere from 3-5 days to cycle your tank. You don't need to worry about a protein skimmer pulling out the "just added" bacteria. Add bacteria to your display and dose the carbon source in your sump. That gives the bacteria ample time to stay in the display and seat itself on the rocks and sand. |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:52pm
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Holy crap! Now you tell me. You would think in somewhere in the "offical bacterial driven thread" it would have said somewhere, Dont follow the recommend dosing instructions on the bottle or you will kill your tank. Geeze! ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:53pm
| Thanks ryan, and steve.... so the bacteria is just eating the nutrients that cause phosphate and nitrate(not actuallly phosphate and nitrate) and the vodka is making the bacteria "big" enough to be skimmed out.. if I read that correctly |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 6:56pm
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Oh and jeff, remember it only says "official" so ryan sounds like he knows what he is talking about
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:34pm
No, the bacteria is eating the nitrates and phosphates. Your system already works this way. Bacteria on the rock and sand break down the nutrients in the tank. It is the whole Nitrogen cycle. This method is really natural although people think it isn't. Fish are polluting the water. You have to break the pollution down so it can be removed from the system. Whether you are running a refugium with macro, doing frequent large water changes, running an algae scrubber or running a bacterial driven system they all have the same concept in mind, import and export of nutrients. Some ways just work better than others. By adding MB7 you are adding bacteria that aids in the process of removing nutrients. Tanks over time will have a dominant strain of bacteria take over the tank (that is the theory at least). MB7 is a bunch of bacterial strains and enzymes. It keeps your population of bacteria diverse and you ensure you have enough bacteria to do the job. Make sense? |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:41pm
| I understand that.... the vodka just feeds the bacteria to make it big enough to skim? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:42pm
You aren't going to kill your tank IMO. I just warned of that possibility. Please don't follow the manufacture instructions on ANYTHING you dose to your tank. Manufacture's want you to buy stuff. If you follow their dosages you will go through their product quicker and thus buy more product. I have a bottle of AquaVitro Fuel that has lasted me over a year. If I had followed their dosages I would be on bottle two or three by now and probably battling hair algae. hope that makes sense. I think the instructions on MB7 are a great guideline to start. However I recommend going slow with anything in this hobby and seeing how things react. Jeff, you are safe IMO. I would just cut back at this point and have your nitrates measured. Without a Hanna Phosphate meter, it is almost pointless to test for phosphates with the liquid kits. So just see where your nitrates are at right now and you will be good to go. I recommend adding 2-3 drops a day at this point and start adding two drops of Vodka every other day. Remember 1 drop for every 30 gallons is my rule. Hope that helps! |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:44pm
To my knowledge yes. I will have to refresh my mind later tonight when I get a chance to do some reading and searching. Adding MB7 is still very beneficial because your tank has methods of removing nitrates and phosphates. MB7 is aiding in this process. |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 7:59pm
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Im just alittle mad at myself because I never thought about new bacteria causing an oxygen depletion. My fish have been hiding out alot more than normal since i started dosing mb7 and I thought it was the probably from the increased microbubbles in the water from the skimmer, but now I think its probably from me suffocating them with my ignorance. ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 8:16pm
Just back off to the low nutrient dosage at this point and see how things react. I bet your oxygen levels are still pretty good since you have a skimmer going. With no skimmer, I highly advise that you don't use this method. |
Posted By: jcom
Date Posted: November 17 2010 at 11:47pm
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This is how I understand it:
The need for a powerful skimmer comes from the fact that you are introducing more bacteria and diversity to your system. Unlike fish, coral, crabs, etc., bacteria lifespan can be measured in days rather than months or years. Once the bacteria dies (after it has consumed its food, multiplied, etc), it becomes part of the organics and/or dissolved organics we are trying to remove from our systems. If it is not skimmed out, along with the other dissolved organics from detritus, dead algae, etc, etc, it will be released back into the system along with the nitrates and phosphates it has consumed.
It is estimated that over 95% of the oceans' biomass is bacteria. It is everywhere...in the water column, substrate, rock, fish, coral, and zooxanthelae within the coral. It is the engine that keeps the oceans running. So to say that introducing or innoculating bacterial strains into our systems is "unnatural" is absurd.
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 9:32am
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So my day 2 results are pretty impressive. My water is crystal clear, whereas it always had a slight tinge to it before. It did develop a slight whitish film on the surface of the water for a couple hours but it went away pretty fast. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: Luckedout
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 7:15pm
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Here's my thought on the carbon source. Tell me if I'm wrong. Carbon is generally what most organisms eat, including bacteria. Detritus in our tank is a carbon source and also the cause of nitrates and phosphates. You add a carbon source with the bacteria to proliferate them rapidly so that it will also consume the detritus carbon source as well, thus eliminating a big source of nitrates and phosphates. Is that about right? ------------- -Ben 90g Mixed reef www.body-balancechiropractic.com |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 8:30pm
| So I noticed this today.... I decided to leave my skimmer on when I dosed mb7, and my orp dropped lower then it has the last 5 days with me turning off my skimmer when dosing, and even dosed a lesser amount... how would this be possible? |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:42pm
Wow badfinger, thats bizzare? How are your fish doing?
------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: Jeffs_little_ocean
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:52pm
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So because I havent seen much of my fish for the past few days, and after learning yesterday that I have been adding way too much mb7 to my tank for the past week (even though I was just following the directions) I decided to do a fish inventory today. After moving some rocks around I discoverd the corps of my little bicolor blenny which I have had for 2 years. I know its just a cheap ten dollar fish but im really bummed about it. Also I cant see my yellow watchman goby anywhere and am pretty sure his fate is the same. Luckily all the other fish and inverts are accounted for. Im not sure, but If I had to guess I would say it was issue with oxygen depletion from me being niave and adding billions of bacteria to 50 gallons of water. Although I still alittle pissed at myself, I do still plan on dosing and continueing on with mb7/vodka just in the significantly lower low nutrient range. Im just posting this mostly for education purposes so that you guys know what can happen, and hopefully you will learn from my mistakes (especially those of you with alot of expensive fish). All in all I still believe in this system and believe that you can get amazing results in coral growth, just START SLOW! ------------- Life is good....right? |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 10:59pm
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Well put Jeff. I'm sorry about your fish, that always sucks. I'm glad your going to keep going though. I also have to say I was skeptical at first about this system (really skeptical). But I have been pleasantly surprised. I was comparing the directions on my Katalyst media to the MB7 instructions on the bottle. The Katalyst instructions actually have you use much less MB7 than the ones on the MB7 bottle. It seems to me that the MB7 instructions were made for dosing bacteria alone, and don't factor in the carbon dosing. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: badfinger
Date Posted: November 18 2010 at 11:36pm
| Everything is doing just fine in my tank, but this tank has only been up for 6 months. So fairly new system. |
Posted By: PDoug
Date Posted: November 19 2010 at 1:12am
After a few pms a while back and some research I grew weary of my minor cyano and began dosing sugar and vinegar. (Still prefer to drink the liquor. I am why the rum is gone ) I love the results------------- (307)679-7898 Phillip Douglass 75 Gallon Reef Tank |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: November 22 2010 at 11:31pm
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Just wanted to post a quick update. My growth all of the sudden exploded on a few corals. I have a tort of some kind, not sure if it is Oregon or Cali but it is growing by the day right now. I swear last night there wasn't any new branches on the encrusting part of the coral and today there are about 10 new branches. My green tenius has sprouted off some more growth on the base and the upper branches. I have an SPS that I have no idea what it is but its' growth on the base has doubled over the last few days. My wife even asked me about it because you can see all the new growth going on. I will have to test my alk and calcium again and start up daily dosing!
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Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: November 23 2010 at 12:10am
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My tank is also doing well. I've noticed some new growth, and also some color shifts. So far no detrimental effects. I almost wonder if I'm keeping my pellets too fluidized, they aren't going like a hurricane or anything but they are definitely tumbling pretty good. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |