Shane H wrote: What can I use for fertilizer?

Mark....  it did come from Mark to start with, didn't it?

Adam

If I were to use anything other than FAF micro algae grow, it would be Shultz instant liquid fertilizer. In fact, I have grown a 20 gallon batch culture using it. The amazing thing was it was growing in a open top aquarium in my greenhouse and lasted a long time without crashing. I never did use it in my tank since I wasn't sure how safe the fertilizer is. I would bet it would be just as safe as FAFUSA's fertilizer, but who knows.

One other thing...A culture may look dark green but still have a relatively low density. I think the measuring stick FAFUSA used to measure the density of a culture is pretty much useless. The only accurate way I have found is a hemacytometer.

Maybe my memory is failing, I thought I bought some water soluble MG powder that I sprayed through a garden hose adapter....

That FAF fertilizer smells like no other fertilizer I've ever come across.  It smells just like vitamins.  Anyone up for going to the ag supply store (IFA or Cal Ranch) and getting some liquid livestock vitamins for use a phyto fertilizer?

I know of a great fertilizer.

MARK PETERSON

I would like to know the NPK ratio on micro algae grow.

Miracle Grow is 15% Nitrogen (by mass), 30% phosphorous and 15% Potassium.

I would be shocked if micro algae grow is more than that!

BTW, 30% phosphorus is pretty high compared to other fertilizers. From memory, I think the Shultz Instant is less than 10% by mass of N,P, and K. I would bet that micro algae grow is a very weak fertilizer (probably about 5-5-5)

So you can't use tank water because it is loaded with bacteria and it will crash the culture.

is that right?

Mark Peterson wrote: Shane, I'll bring you some fertilizer... Are you planning to come to the meeting? Bring your own specimin cup.

I am somewhat at a loss as to the nature of this  apparantly famous "MP Fertilizer".  Are we talking human by products- urine, fecal?  What is it?????? Should I ask Janet Jackson this question?

mariner,

just don't ask.

Adam

SandyReef wrote: So you can't use tank water because it is loaded with bacteria and it will crash the culture. is that right?

When I used RO water and tap water to study the difference, I did notice better initial growth using tap water. But in the long run, the tap water cultures died out much sooner than the RO cultures.  I think the best method I have found is microwaving tap water. This way, you get all the nutrients tap water has to offer, without the contaminants.

One more thing....If you are doing a lot of cultures, microwaving may not be the best option. There are about a half dozen other methods used that may be cheaper for larger amounts of culture.

All this may not seem important since you have a dark green culture, but believe me that two identical looking cultures may have very different densities. When I was using both RO and tap, they appeared about the same (dark green with very little light shining through). The culture using the RO water was about 10-12 times more dense. Contaminants were in both cultures, but many more were seen in the tap water cultures.

Suzy, the only accurate way I know to check for contaminants and cell density is using a microscope. I wouldn't use RO water either. I use either tap water or microwaved tap water. Tap water is much easier to use without microwaving. If you do this, my only suggestion is to start a new culture every couple of months and to sterilize all your equipment. This way, you will make much more phyto and you can feed less culture volume to your take. Its also important to start your culture off right with a good start (ie FAFUSAs culture plates).

If you don't keep dense cultures, you just need to feed your tank more. Which doesn't seem like too big of a problem. My only concern with this is the introduction of trace elements or unused fertilizer over long periods of time. I doubt this is a significant risk and bet that all top off water could be green water without trouble, but who knows.

Adam - I've actually toyed with  the thought of culturing my phyto. in fresh water(rather than salt) and just using that in my auto-topoff rather than ro water.

rfoote, I have considered this too.

Nannochloropsis grows very well in fresh water. There is a decrease in culture density, but not too significant.  I think the decrease is worth the savings in salt. The only problem is converting a salt water culture to a fresh water culture. The phytoplankton will not like the change and many cultures may crash. I have had great succuss with starting FAFUSAs culture dishes in a very weak salt solution to get the culture going, then converting to fresh water. I have never tried starting the cultures in fresh water to start off with, but I assume there wouldn't be a problem. I believe its worth a try.

Update on my cultures!

 The red phyto I got from Andy Rhyne just barely turned green. It was a mix of like 6 different algaes and we knew the nanno would take over.Dang! That stuff just exploded in growth. I swear, I'd fill up a bottle one day, and next day couldn't tell which bottle was the new one!

 I am going find some more! If I have to bug Adam every day!!

 So, in the mean time, I am going to order some of the different algae culture disks from FAFUSA. Does anybody need anything from them and want to share S&H?

 Another update: I don't add as much fertilizer to my cultures, now that I am using it for fry. Just in case. I've been adding 1.5 ml/cc, and it still grows well.

Suzy, I have a very nice culture of Tetraselmis growing (if you want a start). This is a mobile green algae. I tried to start the isocrysis from FAFUSA, but had no luck. I did use the algal plates however and I think that is to blame. Perhaps a liquid culture start would work better.

Also, I have some micro algae grow i'd sell for $.01/mL (or $10/liter)

One liter of MAG is enough to make 2,000 liters of culture water.

That's the one I was going to try! I did hear it crashes often

I do want a start of Tetraselmis. Thanks! I'll get with you next week, if you will be home.

 Which of the others would you recommend for feeding BBS to make it the most nutritious for baby seahorse fry? If you say Tetraselmis, I'm not ordering from FAFUSA!

 We gotta find some red!!

Suzy wrote: That's the one I was going to try! I did hear it crashes often

So far, it seems just as easy as nanno and the cultures get REALLY dark green. 

I found the link to the advanced aquarist page....

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm - http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/breeder.htm

No, I meant the Isochrysis one! But, I'll go with the Tetraselmis, 'cause I think my babies perish because of bacterial infections and I've been trying to find the right antibiotic!! I'll be a your house as soon as you say!!

 I'm actually trapped at work, but both my patients are going out, so, there's a slim chance I might leave early. Can you pm your phone number?

Suzy, this may help with the Tetraselmis culture....

A good way to help prevent a crash would be to start 4 fresh 2-liter containers with the one you have. Add about a cup of the culture to each bottle. Once those cultures are mature, choose the bottle which looks the darkest and use it to start four new containers and use the rest as food. It is a little bit of a hassle to use new bottles each time, but the cultures should last a lot longer.

If your cultures will not turn dark green, this may indicate a crash is coming. One way to help prevent the crash is to start a new culture with only about 1/8-1/4 cup of the phyto. Add double the fertilizer and let that culture mature. This method doesn't rid the culture of contamination, but can extend the life of the culture. This method doesn't always work with some contaminants however. Its all about which species outcompete the others.

oh, and I told you wrong. The liquid inoculants only have a shelf-life of 2-4 weeks.

Anyone have a suggestion for a nano-reefer that doesn't want to be hooked to DT's but doesn't need a humongous setup?

Also no direct sunlight available...

hmmm... I have an extra normal out fixture, extra airpump and a cheeseball jug that is empty...

In theory All I have to do is take saltwater put it in the jug, place the light alongside, run an airline through the top for the setup? 

As far as a culture goes would some DT's work or do I need something else?

I'll do a search to find out more about fertilizer though.

Thanks 

Want a start? I've got some in Riverton, Mark has some up north, Rodney has some on the west side....

  Jason has some in Heber...

Who am I forgetting?

We are going to be at the meeting tonight and I will just like to know if anyone will like to help us getting started, with growing our own green stuff, we will buy some if you have any to share. 

thank you Mrs. Vangvace

rfoote wrote: Adam - I've actually toyed with  the thought of culturing my phyto. in fresh water(rather than salt) and just using that in my auto-topoff rather than ro water.

I was really wondering about this myself. I just setup my first set of Phyto bottles (I'll try to post a picture later). They are slowly greening up after Mark taught me his secret recipe.

However, I am concerned about throwing off the salinity in my tank by constantly adding Salt water to the tank.

How does everyone handle this. Do you just take out as much water as you put in each time?

Has anyone successfully grown theirs in FW?

Patrick, Nannochloropsis can be grown in fresh water. I did it for quite some time and the cultures always did well. I still prefer to use salt water since the cultures seem to do a little better.

If you do use salt water, just remove a little tank water when you add the phyto. I keep my nanno cultures at about 1.020 sg and my tank at 1.026 so I need to adjust the salinity about once a month.

BTW, can I come over tomorrow (Sunday)? Sorry ive been so busy.

Weimers wrote: Hi Mark!  Is that a 1 gal container?  I read that Suzy uses almost half a cup of salt for a gallon.  Is that about right?   Where did you find a 1g container?

Salinity depends on what species you are growing. You can find the 1 gallon bottled water jugs at walmart i think.

danhenrie wrote: I can tell I am going to have to convert my whole bedroom to an aquarium room

Best move you'll ever make..... hard part is getting the significant other to understand that.

Adam

Adam, are we gonna have to start a Singles Version of WMAS?  So these boys can meet some phishy wives?    

Don't worry, danhenrie, if you get hitched you can show her my 8 foot wide tank.  She'll think your Aqua-bedroom is nice and simple.  Got a waterbed?  Make it a tank!  I'm sure something could live in there.  With the right lights, filtration, etc.

Weimers wrote: Adam, are we gonna have to start a Singles Version of WMAS?  So these boys can meet some phishy wives?

I think it would be a lost cause. 

Adam

So lets see if I understand this right.

I get a container fill it with tap water and the right amount of salt will someone give suggestions on how many cups of salt go into a gallon container.  Add fertilizer How much? add live phyto, put in a airline place it next to the light and wait 5 days?  How do you dechlorinate the water?

I once tried it with miracle grow it worked great but I didn't dare put it in my tank

Cortney,

You should also try using microwaved tap water (7 min/liter...one liter at a time). Just make sure you add the fertilizer after the water has cooled down.

I have used RO water, RO/DI water, tap water, spring water, microwaved tap water. I got best results using tap water and microwaved tap water, but the microwaved water stayed more dense over time since it had less contaminants.

Adam,

I'll keep that in mind. I'm assuming you add salt to the tap water, but do you do that before or after irradiation? And what does the bombardment of radio waves do to the water that makes it so good for the green? Or is it just the getting it hot that does the trick? (And how many watts is your microwave? 7 min/ltr @ 1200 W)

It eliminates pretty much any biological contaminant in the water. recommended dose is 8-10 minutes per 1 to 1.5 liters using a 700 watt unit....which should kill microalgae in 5 min, bacteria in 8 min and fungi in 10 min for a 1.5 liter sample.

I believe the EM waves make living cells burst, but dont quote me on that.

Add the fertilizer after. The fertilizer (micro algae grow) is very acidic and should contain no biological contaminants.

Add salt before.

Help, I start a culture, but some how it is slow turning green. It has been more than a week now but I see it is still not dark green yet. So what am I missing. I only use tap water and a live DT culture.

Hi Suzy. Thanks for taking the time to help me. I have read a lot about your post I really like to come and check out your set up and would like to get a culture from you if you don't mind. I use to raise seahorse before too. But I give up I have a hard time to get live food for them, but seahorse is my favorite, I like to get back to it some time.

hi clown_fish, You do need to use fertilizer. Ideally it should be labeled "Guillard F/2". This simply means its nutrients are balanced for microalgae growth so there isnt a lot of unused stuff in the culture water. I have never seen it sold locally. I have some id sell for $0.01/ml.

Your setup is good except for the lighting. In batch cultures like you are doing, you must use an intense light to penetrate through the culture. It would be ideal to have over 100watts of light for a culture that size. Another consideration with that type of culture is contamination. The culture must be covered and all equiptment must be sterilized between batches. Batch cultures are great if you are using a lot of phytoplankton, but is more work than the method most of us use.

This is where I buy mine from..

https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi?cart_id=9219643.31280*zY7cC1&product=MICRO_MACRO_NUTRIENTS - https://3kserver7.com/~frank/secure/agora.cgi?cart_id=921964 3.31280*zY7cC1&product=MICRO_MACRO_NUTRIENTS

Here is another good thread

Yes. Yes. Yes. No.

I keep my salinity the same as my tanks.  I don't try to "rebloom" a culture. I just chuck it and learn....

I also just use the old culture to start a new one...

Hmmm, where to start?

 How much of a typical reef tank would benefit from phyto? I'm going to guess 126%! Everything benefits from a strong, healthy microalgae! It clears the water, eats the crap nuisance algae eats, feeds the filter feeders, pods, worms, coral polyps, sponge. If it doesn't get eaten, it just grows and swims and hangs out 'till it does get eaten. If there are a lot of excess nutrients, it will "bloom" in the tank, but it doesn't last long!

 I have great results using our tap water, but some do go to the trouble of using microwaved water.

 Captive bred seahorses eat frozen food, just like your other fish do. The fry need live food sources, but that's a different thread!

 I have an article in a seastar a while back, a few threads here and there. Maybe we should start a new one? Or you could come visit my corral?