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  <title>WMAS Discussion Forum : Calcium help</title>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : But XRS are on space shuttles......]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13796&amp;title=calcium-help#13796</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23">Marcus</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 5:29pm<br /><br />But XRS are on space shuttles... <img border="0" src="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/smileys/smiley19.gif" border="0"> ]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:29:03 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : Adam&amp;#039;s GC-MS ICP is a much...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13795&amp;title=calcium-help#13795</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=96">jfinch</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 5:25pm<br /><br /><P>Adam's GC-MS ICP is a much better machine <IMG src="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0">.&nbsp; Why buy cheap?</P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 17:25:17 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : I think I&amp;#039;ll just buy an...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13781&amp;title=calcium-help#13781</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23">Marcus</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 4:40pm<br /><br />I think I'll just buy an x-ray spectrometer.  Want to go in on one with me?]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:40:54 +0000</pubDate>
   <guid isPermaLink="true">http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13781&amp;title=calcium-help#13781</guid>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : My kit is &amp;#034;more accurate&amp;#034;...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13779&amp;title=calcium-help#13779</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=96">jfinch</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 4:24pm<br /><br /><P>My kit is "more accurate" only because I'm doing the titration using a burret.&nbsp; I can resolve the volume of EDTA titrated down to 0.01 ml... which is equilivant to 0.8 ppm Ca in the water.&nbsp; That accuracy is not really needed though, imo.&nbsp; There's also the inaccuracy of determining just when the endpoint (color change) is met.</P><P>Yes, I test my water at work.&nbsp; But HACH does sell a kit:&nbsp; <A href="http://www.hach.com/hc?L3NlYXJjaC5wcm9kdWN0L2ludm9rZXIkRGV0YWlsL1ZlbmRvckNvZGU9SDIvUGFja2FnaW5nQ29kZT0xNDU3MDEvVmlldz1QUk9EVUNUX09WRVJWSUVXL1BSRVZJT1VTX0JSRUFEQ1JVTUJfSUQ9SENfU0VBUkNIX0tFWVdPUkQvU0VTU0lPTklEfEJrRXpUWHBCZDAxVVNUQk9SR016VGtOYWJtUlhWbnBrUld4TVZIYzlQVUV4Y0V4TlZBPT18" target="_blank"> http://www.hach.com/hc?L3NlYXJjaC5wcm9kdWN0L2ludm9rZXIkRGV0Y WlsL1ZlbmRvckNvZGU9SDIvUGFja2FnaW5nQ29kZT0xNDU3MDEvVmlldz1QU k9EVUNUX09WRVJWSUVXL1BSRVZJT1VTX0JSRUFEQ1JVTUJfSUQ9SENfU0VBU kNIX0tFWVdPUkQvU0VTU0lPTklEfEJrRXpUWHBCZDAxVVNUQk9SR016VGtOY WJtUlhWbnBrUld4TVZIYzlQVUV4Y0V4TlZBPT18 </A></P><P>If I didn't have what I have at work, I'd use the Salifert kit.&nbsp; It's resolution is at 10 ppm Ca.&nbsp; Plenty good.&nbsp; My father in law just bought a kit (Red Sea, I think) with resolution at 50 ppm per drop!&nbsp; That's terrible imo.</P><P>I think every Aquarium Systems kit (not just calcium) use repackaged HACH chemicals.&nbsp; Anyway, I've gone on too long... Marcus, I wouldn't buy the HACH, the salifert is cheaper.</P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 16:24:58 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : Jon, is the HACH kit something...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13777&amp;title=calcium-help#13777</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23">Marcus</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 3:57pm<br /><br />Jon, is the HACH kit something that you got from work or is it available for reefers as well?<br /><br />And do you feel it is a superior test?<span style="font-size:10px"><br /><br />Edited by Marcus</span>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:57:14 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : This is a very interesting topic. Regarding...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13776&amp;title=calcium-help#13776</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=96">jfinch</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 3:54pm<br /><br /><P>This is a very interesting topic.</P><P>Regarding calcium test kits.&nbsp; I use a HACH test "kit".&nbsp; Kit is in "" because it's more of a procedure then a kit.&nbsp; Instead of counting drops, I titrate directly from a burret.&nbsp; More accurate (and it makes me feel like a chemist<IMG src="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/smileys/smiley4.gif" border="0">).&nbsp; </P><P>This is how the HACH kit works and how, I would hazard to guess, all calcium test kits work (at least the ones I've seen/used):</P><OL><LI>The sample is made alkaline (pH 12 to 13) by adding potassium hydroxide or sodium hydroxide (KOH or NaOH) to precipitate magnesium as magnesium hydroxide, Mg(OH)2.</LI><LI>An indicator is added that combines with any calcium to form a red color (or some other "calcium present color", red is most common).&nbsp; This is ussually some colored looking salt or a drop of a colored solution.&nbsp; In some hobby test kits the color indicator is combined with the chelate used in the next step.</LI><LI>A strong chelate is then titrated (dripped) into the test solution.&nbsp; The most common is EDTA, but I suppose others might be used.&nbsp; The chelate is a very very good scavenger of calcium.&nbsp; It first grabs up all the calcium not associated with the color indicator used in step 2.&nbsp; Then it starts pulling the calcium from the color indicator.&nbsp; When all the calcium is extracted from the dye, the color changes from red to blue.&nbsp; That is the endpoint, all the calcium in the solution has been sequestered by the EDTA.</LI></OL><P>That's it.&nbsp; It's just a&nbsp;math problem&nbsp;from there.&nbsp;</P><P>I suppose if the calcium is very strongly held by something, i.e. held covalently... chemically connected not just complexed with another ion/molecule, then the kit would not see it.&nbsp; But I wouldn't think it would be available for coral growth either.&nbsp; But I don't know... that's what research is for.&nbsp; Not sure regarding the comparison of our tank water with actual reef water.&nbsp; Most here add extra calcium and carbonates to enhance coral growth.&nbsp; So it's not apples to apples... or did I missunderstand you're idea?</P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 15:54:43 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : I keep my salinity at 1.025 so...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13768&amp;title=calcium-help#13768</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23">Marcus</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 1:10pm<br /><br />I keep my salinity at 1.025 so I am not as worried about it, but not all seawater is at 1.025 like Randy Donowitz implies.  The salinity in the Red Sea is outrageous, like 1.03 or something.]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 13:10:52 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : Jon and Marcus, That is exactly...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13753&amp;title=calcium-help#13753</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=5">Adam Blundell</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> January&nbsp;01&nbsp;2004 at 9:19am<br /><br /><P>Jon and Marcus,</P><P>That is exactly my concern.&nbsp; Now I also use EDTA every day, but I didn't know that it was common in our home based test kits.&nbsp; Thanks.&nbsp; Now I have to rethink.&nbsp; <BR>Here was my concern before.&nbsp; What if our test kits are testing low?&nbsp; What if we have lots of calcium but they are alreadyin incorporated in organics or in viruses and the like?&nbsp; Your point makes me think the other way, what if our test kits are testing high?&nbsp; What if the EDTA is falsly elevating the levels of AVAILABLE calcium.&nbsp; Hmmmm.&nbsp; </P><P>I do have a solution, what if we used our home test kits to test our water, and to also test water straight from a reef?&nbsp; We couln't quantify anything (since the accuracy of the testing instrument is what we are checking) but we could qualify the calcium levels and see how differnt our water is from the reef water.&nbsp; That would be sketchy but possibly useful.&nbsp; I don't think we could prove anything is, but we could prove things that are not.</P><P>Adam</P><P>Samoa this summer (I hope) and yes I will need several people.&nbsp; Samples will be collected but not tested on site.&nbsp; They will be tested by mass spec once I return.&nbsp; No particular reason for Samoa other than Spargur got me thinking about it and my local Samoan tour guide has impressed me recently.&nbsp; Testing trace metals, Cu Fe Pb etc.</P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Thu, 01 Jan 2004 09:19:41 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : Oh, Adam, if you do indeed travel...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13697&amp;title=calcium-help#13697</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=96">jfinch</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> December&nbsp;31&nbsp;2003 at 2:50pm<br /><br /><P>Oh, Adam, if you do indeed travel to Samoa and need an "assistant" to catch water samples, carry your scuba gear, whatever... I'm your man <IMG src="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/smileys/smiley2.gif" border="0">!</P><P>On a more serious note... what metals are you looking for, how are you measuring them, and why is this a concern (is it specific to Samoa?)?</P>]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:50:07 +0000</pubDate>
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   <title><![CDATA[Calcium help : Adam, when do I get to go to Samoa...]]></title>
   <link>http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1576&amp;PID=13690&amp;title=calcium-help#13690</link>
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    <![CDATA[<strong>Author:</strong> <a href="http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/member_profile.asp?PF=23">Marcus</a><br /><strong>Subject:</strong> 1576<br /><strong>Posted:</strong> December&nbsp;31&nbsp;2003 at 2:08pm<br /><br />Adam, when do I get to go to Samoa with you?<br /><br />Jon, don't apologize buddy.  I wanted yours and other's opinions on this so we could all learn as a group.  If a prominent magazine is posting incorrect information, then we need to know that its incorrect.  Thanks for looking out for me and everyone else!]]>
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   <pubDate>Wed, 31 Dec 2003 14:08:59 +0000</pubDate>
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