What size are the $20 cultures? All you really need to start a culture is 20ml or so. We could split the cultures between a lot of people and save some money. Suzy, were you thinking about getting any of the zooplankton?

I would like to try some cultures of macroalgae and zooplankton and copepods, depending on cost.  Right now I am kind of strapped.

Can you provide somewhat of a price list?

Here is the website for phycopure

http://phycopure.com/ - http://phycopure.com/

How much is the Phycopure?

It seems to me that it would be very difficult to feed this to your tank every day as some people do with their own cultures due to the exobitant price.  I mean my family doesn't eat $25 worth of food a day.  I certainly can't afford to feed my tank at that price.

This is why I use Tahitian Blend.  It seems pricey initially, but it lasts forever.  Maybe I'm just not feeding enough of it.

Question for Adam (BananaTropics): 

 Does the fact that Tahitian Blend is frozen necessarily mean the algae is dead?  When I feed it 2-3 times a week I get a heavy growth of algae on my glass that the snails love to clean up.  When I don't feed it very often I get far less growth.  Do you think this could mean some of the algae is still alive and ready to grow given the right conditions?

Im basing a lot of what Im saying on the statements by Mr. Tagrin (im guessing he started DTs based on his initials). Here is what he wrote to Anthony Calfo to pass along to RC members...

"In contrast, centrifuging phytoplankton is a process used by some companies to make algae paste for commercial aquaculture. This process was not designed to harvest live cells and in fact, the cells are scraped out like clay. This method is fast and cheap, but it damages a large percentage of cells. Several companies are purchasing these algal pastes as frozen concentrated phytoplankton to use as ingredients in their marine aquariums"

But here is Mr. Randy Reed's (owner of Instant algae, the maker of Tahitian blend i think)....

I understand why Dennis has to make comments like that - otherwise he has no way to differentiate his products. But unfortunately his "facts" are not correct. Nanno is the only algae that we concentrate to the "clay" level and none of the cells are damaged at this concentration - Nanno is just too tough. Our other algae are concentrated at far lower G's to a thick liquid. They also come out whole and intact.

The algae that we concentrate for our "Live" product which is sold into the aquarium industry is concentrated using a different method that we have developed. I'm not going to reveal how we do this because it is a trade secret that we don't want to become publically known. I know everybody hates "secrets", but sometimes they are necessary - sorry!

Mr. Tagrin later writes...

EPA is Eicosapentaenoic acid one of the most essential omega 3 fatty acids.

DHA is Docosahexaenoic acid, another essential omega 3 fatty acid.

Although animals can synthesize one from the other it is not as efficient and the goal from our continued research is to find a species of microalgae that would be a good source of DHA that survives refrigerated storage.

Note: Isochrysis and Pavlova are dead within 2 weeks of refrigerated storage.

People are being mislead by claims that they survive in
refrigerated storage.

And Mr. Reeds follow-up...

EPA and ARA are found at the highest levels in green algae, but DHA is ONLY found in brown algae like Isochrysis and Pavlova. DHA is one of the building blocks of neural tissue and without it your animals can not be at their peak vibrancy.

By the way, Isochrysis and Pavlova can be kept alive in a refrigerator for far longer than 2 weeks. I�ve heard there is a study that somebody performed that claims only 2 weeks, but I�ve never been able to get my hands on it. If they killed the Iso/Pav after only 2 weeks they did something very wrong.

Its hard to believe either since they are trying to sell thier own product and discredit the competition. But I bet the truth is somwhere in between. Id say Isochrysis and Pavlova start to die off after a couple weeks but there are stragglers for a couple months. And that is probably more true for a product like Phycopure, not the super-concentrated Tahitian blend.

Im not too sure about the cryopreservation. They use MeOH, DMSO or maybe another chemical which I believe prevents the cells from freezing. So if you keep them in the freezer, the cells are not actually frozen, just very very cold. But once thawed, it can take somewhere around a month before the cells start reproducing again (but are alive).

Will, i would say that part of the algae you are adding is decaying in your water and producing a nutrient spike for other algaes. The algaes in Tahitian blend will not grow on the glass or substrate. Have you tried DTs or phycopure? The live cells will last much longer in your sysem and not as much will end up deteriorating water quality. After I stopped adding nannochloropsis and Tetraselmis to my tank, I could still find living cells in the water many weeks later, just by taking random samples near the substrate.  

Im not sure if its priced the same but this is from last years order...

The 8 oz retails for $16 and the 16 oz retails for $29-30. When you guys order I will take 25% off so that would be $12 and $21 respectively

I have used both DT's and Phycopure, but in very small quantities due to the price.  I have a 180 gallon tank and dosing much of either is very costly.  I understand that they are more concentrated that your average Green Water, but when I see things that say add a cup or two a day of Green Water, I can see no way of doing it other than growing it myself. 

In a heavily populated 180 gallon tank, (mostly softies and LPS,) how much DT's or Phycopure would you say needs to be added each day?  Also how much Green Water, (Nano or whatever most people grow at home,) should be added?

Just a comparison. I can usually get nannochloropsis cultures to about 20 million cells/ml. The instant-algae that only has nannochloropsis has about 68 billion cells/ml. So one ml of the instant algae is equal to almost 3.4 liters of homegrown. Sounds wrong to me and I think a lot of the cells are dead in the instant algae.

Suzy, i like the idea of making our own super-mix. I'll be growing 3 species i think (tetraselmis, t-isochrysis and rhodomonas) maybe even nannochloropsis if i have the room.

Ok im in Suzy. So is he going to ship the pure cultures to the LFS?

I'll take the Rhodomonas culture and the T-Iso culture.

Hmmm, those acartia sound tempting to try. Have you tried those before Suzy?

Bob, I have no idea what it is. Its not tetraselmis. It sure doesn't look like nanno but its about the same size (under 10 microns id say) The color is absolutely stunning. I think our best bet in identifying it would be to track it back to who started the culture. Did you say you got it from Mark?

Suzy, if i can find some good info on the acartia, i'll get some too.

Suzy, I'd like to try some Nano, but it appears now is not the time.  I just got stuck with a ton of work so I wouldn't be able to set it up for at least a month.  I'm also broke after setting up my 130 and now I have to work to pay the bills rather than the hobby.

When I'm finally ready to do this I'll see if anyone has a culture I can "frag".  Thanks!

wsinbad1 wrote: When I'm finally ready to do this I'll see if anyone has a culture I can "frag".  Thanks!

 You know, in the past, I have shared my expensive cultures for free! But, this time, I'm giving everyone the chance to go in on them, so I'm not sure if I'm going to give them away any more. This could end up costing me a bunch, but if enough people share.....

 I do actually think quite a few are waiting 'till I pay for them!

maybe start a new thread in the buy/sell with the word phytoplankton in the topic. I bet most people dont know what algagen is. I still want to do the order if we can. I have a bunch of new culturing stuff on its way and i want to use it ASAP 

BananaTropics wrote: Im not too sure about the cryopreservation. They use MeOH, DMSO or maybe another chemical which I believe prevents the cells from freezing. So if you keep them in the freezer, the cells are not actually frozen, just very very cold... ...track it back to who started the culture. Did you say you got it from Mark?

Re: Freezing - Tim Troy, BSD owner, told me they use Glucose to keep the algae paste from going solid below 32 degrees F.

I got the culture from DNellans with the understanding that it was Tetraselmis.

Ive looked at his, it was a flagellate like tetraselmis. These ones were much smaller and not flagellates. hmm  I think they are chlorella

I'd like the Nannoclorosis.  I might want tetraselmis also, but I need to look under the microscrope at the phyto I currently have to see what it is.  I'll do that tomorrow.  How large are the individual phyto. cultures going to be?

If I knew more about copopods, I might be interested - but I would have a clue what to do with them.  Do you just dump them into your refugium or do you set up a hatchery area for them?  Is it like growing rotifers?  Are they smaller/bigger than rotifers?

Suzy wrote: . What if we all cultured a different species, then we traded?!

Suzy, this is a great idea.  We would all be paying the same amount, but getting a culture from all of them.  I am SO in on this order if you want to do it this way.  If it was timed right, we could trade the harvested cultures at the next meeting.

Maybe a price should be set on these cultures if sold outside of the group that originally paid for them.  The money could go into a piggy bank to be used if one of the cultures ever has to be replace down the road.

Suzy,

I'm in for the Super Pods.  Can I house them in my refugium or do I need to setup a separate tank?  I'd also like to start an algae culture, but as a beginner this is all way over my head (your mad scientist lab boggled me), maybe I should start out with something simple and easy.

Suzy,

I'm in for the Super Pods.� Can I house them in my refugium or do I
need to setup a separate tank?� I'd also like to start an algae culture, but
as a beginner this is all way over my head (your mad scientist lab boggled
me), maybe I should start out with something simple and easy.

Suzy, ive been doing some reading and found a lot of info that suggests the acartia does best in brackish water (15ppt i think). Can you ask the guy for some basic requirements (temp, salinity etc)?

Bob, here is the site i was talking about.

This site has some of the best information on culturing phyto and zooplankton ive seen and its free! 

http://www.fao.org/ - http://www.fao.org/

Theres lots of good info just a search away. Here is a good one i found...

http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e00.htm#Contents - http://www.fao.org/DOCREP/003/W3732E/w3732e00.htm#Contents

Suzy, change my order to tetraselmis instead of nanno.

If I'm going to be raising clownfish, do you think the copepods would work instead of rotifers?  Or would they be too big?  Suzy, do you still raise rotifers for your seahorses or have you switched to copepods?

Suzy wrote: Each culture is 25 mls. But, if 2 people want the same one, it could be split!

250 ml?

If I'm going to be raising clownfish, do you think the copepods would work instead of rotifers? 

Amie- I think copepods will work better.  I know that C-quest believes in using copepods almost exclusively.  They say copepods are "the key" to raising fish.

Adam

I'd like to get in on any of these I can put into my refugium. Am I too late? If  it helps too, I'll take the responsibility to make sure Suzie doesn't get stuck paying for more than she should...share the burden so to speak...

Dave 435.602.0933...please call me if I can get into the order.

Bob, Amie, Suzy, I am going to try and keep sub-cultures going on the species i get. They are basically very small cultures (ie in test tubes) in which isolation methods are used to keep the cultures pure (ie agar plating, dilution, and microscopic pipetting). If you three want to give me like 20mls of the 250ml starters when they get here, i'll keep some sub-cultures going on all 6 species and you can get fresh starter cultures on any one of them when you need it.

Long thread! Suzy I'd like an order of pods! How much?

I got the meassge. I'm in for $35 or whatever my split ends up being. Let me know when it's ready 435.602.0933. I travel a lot so PLEASE let me know how to be responsive and not lose my place in line!

Dave

Suzy, you mentioned that 2 different nannos were available. 

Is one of them Nannochloropsis Oculata? (vs. Nannochloris)  Here's what Joyce Wilkerson says about Nannochloropsis oculata "it is high in both B12 and the unsaturated fatty acid EPA needed for larval and juvenile marine fishes.  This is a dark green alga with a thick, tough cell walls that protects it from possible damage by overstirring during the microculturing procedure.  This alga can be digested by rotifers, but its food value for most other animals is low because the cell wall prevents them from digesting it thoroughly. "

She says the following about tetraselmis, "it is nutritionally inferior to nannochloropsis oculata as far as fatty-acid content is concerned.  This large-celled alga may also prove useful as a direct food in culturing organisms that are too small to accept rotifers.

Suzy,

I feel like you're doing all of us a favor. Make it easy on yourself. I'll pay my fair share and help with using any of the cultures others want to share.

Dave

Make sure to get the T-iso (Isochrysis galbana. Tahitian strain). That strain is higher in DHA. Pavlova would be nice to try too :)

Phyto people, I have everything we need to keep pure subcultures going. So when your culture dies out, i can give you a fresh starter culture of any of the species we order. All I need is about 20mls from each of the cultures when they get here. How does that sound to everyone?

R. salina i think. Maybe ask which is in the phycopure.

Suzy wrote: What if the algae growers just do a bit of sharing? What if i order the coolest ones, we share the cost? Then, if one peters out, we can always try another?

I think that's a great idea.  You and I had talked on the phone about me ordering pavlova instead of tetraselmis anyway. 

Let me know how to hook up on this. I'm still in line right?

Dave 435.602.0933

what kinda of water are you planing to put the pods in?

I'll guess salty.

Adam