Cracked Tank
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Help
Forum Name: General Help
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=77125
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Topic: Cracked Tank
Posted By: Marcoss
Subject: Cracked Tank
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 6:40am
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So, I was in the process of making my tank bare bottom when I noticed a giant crack expanding from a bulkhead out a few inches. I'm attempting to work with the manufacturer but things are getting heated and I'll have to take a more drastic approach... So, I'm curious to know if any of you if its repairable. I have read that a ton of people cut out a perfect piece of plexi to line the bottom of the tank and glue in place. But my concern is that the crack is originating from the bulkhead. If you know if anyone can fix this, I'd love to contact them. I realize the fix will be costly but if it's more than a couple of hundred it may not be worth it. Thanks! Marcos Will attach images once at a desktop. ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Replies:
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 7:13am
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Replacing the bottom glass is the only way to truly fix it. I've done
the plexiglass fix on a couple of smaller tanks but I'm not sure I would
trust it on a larger tank. If the crack is coming from the bulkhead
hole I would say that it is definitely a manufacturing defect and if
it's still under warranty then it should be replaced. However, that will
be hard to prove since they will probably claim that you improperly
installed or tightened the bulkhead. Catch 22 there. It's probably not
worth the headache of worrying about when the tank will start leaking
and I would just buy a new tank and then fight to get a replacement
while your tank and corals are safe. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 7:48am
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Hi Krazie, Great advice. I was thinking the same thing. And you hit the nail on the head with them trying to blame me on over tightening the bulkhead. I actually had issues with the bulkhead originally and have it documented though, so I have a pretty strong case. Its crazy how cut throat some companies get when it comes to avoiding being wrong. There are several cases of the bulkhead cracking on these tanks. It was advised by a sales rep that I placed too much weight in the tank causing it to crack. Its the dumbest response I have ever heard. Do you know of any glass/tank builders that can swap out the bottom piece? Or is it such a big fix that its not even worth it? All the live stock is safe. I caught it when it was just a drip and was able to empty it out. It did cause some water damage beneath the tank though so thats another issue.... Thanks! Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 8:36am
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Hi, As stated, here are some images. Its hard to tell, but you can see that the crack started at the bulkhead or made its way to the bulkhead. I am assuming it was the bulkhead as the cut was not super nice initially. http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/shaffermarcos/media/IMG_9038_zpsjjjellvq.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  http://s1368.photobucket.com/user/shaffermarcos/media/IMG_9039_zpszmb50lwr.jpg.html" rel="nofollow">  ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Lyscer
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 8:44am
| Is this on your cadlights tank? If so the 1 negative thing that seems to be consistent about cadlights from what I have read is that once you buy the tank their customer service is horrible with getting things repaired. Good luck! |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 8:57am
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You hit the nail on the head. Its been very hard to get anything done with them. They said they guarantee the seems, and said that I cracked the tank. When I said it was hand tightened, and when I told am not strong enough to even twist it to break it, they said I loaded it with too much weight. huh; its a tank and should have a ton of weight in it. It probably has close to 9-12 lb. per gallon due to the rocks, etc. If it cannot handle 900+- lb. then they built it wrong. At this point, I am just trying to see what makes the most sense. Waste money and involve an attorney (sounds dramatic but its about more than the tank now) or just repair it. The tank itself is $700 so I have to figure out which route makes the most sense. ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 10:10am
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Aquarium Creations does replace glass on tanks (may not be cost effective). That's the only place I know of. The crack clearly originated at the hole for the bulkhead as can be seen by the feathering on the end of the crack in the main tank area. What caused it is anyone's guess but I wouldn't let that deter me from doing everything I could to get the manufacturer to replace it. I try to get them to buy into the position that you did everything right and not that either side did anything wrong. If that doesn't work ask them what the torque spec on the bulkheads are for their tanks and where that is provided to the customer? That usually gets them. Good luck and sorry you've had issues with the tank. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 2:07pm
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Krazie, that's brilliant. I am very persistent. I would share my emails of how persistent I am but may need to keep them confidential at a later date. I really like your idea about providing the specs. If I get my tank repaired/replaced, I will owe you a beer/coke. Thanks! Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 2:24pm
If they don't tell you how to not do it right then they really can't complain when they say you did it wrong.  I'll take a frag tank!   ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 2:31pm
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Exactly, I advised them of that and am waiting to hear back. If things don't go well, I might have a reef in a frag tank. :( ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 2:52pm
that sucks, now i'm worried i tightened the crap out of both my one inch bulkheads on my 90 cube i had no clue you were supposed to just hand tighten  ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 3:04pm
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Are you being facetious or did you really tighten them with some tightening device? Sorry, its hard for me to identify sarcasm in writing. I thought the same thing on tightening them super tight (before I got the tank) and was ripped a new one by a hobbyist. I worry I am too weak for my hand tightening to even work though.
I would think that if it was tightened too tight that it would have cracked then and there, and not later on. But what do I know...
------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 3:28pm
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no i'm serious i tightened it as tight as i could with a wrench, i hope it will be ok because it would be a nightmare if the tank cracked or the bulkhead, i could change them out but that would be a nightmare as well, not as bad of one though. ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 3:33pm
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Hmm. I would think if it was too tight it would have cracked. But then again, I am being told I cracked my tank from over-tightening it...months later... I don't know how glass works. In my mind, I would think if it was going to crack it would have by now. But then again, maybe its "soft" now, per se, and a slight bump can damage it. I'm sure some wizard will chime in on this... ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 3:34pm
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Just thought of something. You could have cracked your actual bulkhead and not the glass too. The bulkhead could fail instead of the glass. In my case it was the glass and not the bulkhead. ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: love2skiutah
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 3:37pm
| Bulk Heads do not need to be that tight. I did mine as tight as I could go with my hand and then used a tool and cranked them another 3/4 turn. I guarantee I could have tightened the nut another 2 or 3 full turns, but you shouldn't need to. |
Posted By: Reefboy4life
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 4:20pm
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Not trying to jack the thread but if you were me would you just leave it be or get new bulkheads and redo it witch will suck ------------- 90 gallon mixed reef |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 4:30pm
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I'm curious to know what others will say. I would assume that leaving it as is would be the best route to take since you don't know if its really broken. I think if it showed signs, I would fix it. But the my first tank ended up cracking so I don't have the experience to give this advice. Haha. ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 5:40pm
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Hi Marcos, If I remember correctly your vendor supplied bulkheads had not been properly cut to length, just like my tank. It took a lot of work on your part to get them to cover that. It is my opinion you could not over tighten the bulkheads to the point of cracking the glass. Glass cracking from being squeezed between two plastic fittings it ridiculous. The fitting will fail under little toque well before the glass would crack. If you applied lateral force to the fittings that would be worse, but again the fitting would fail first. This is 3/8" glass. Cadlights is making excuses so they don't need cover the tank under warranty (chicken ****). I would tell them you are going to document this failure with the facts you have and let everyone know Cadlights would not cover under warranty on every online forum you can find. This would be after I tried to work this out with them using Krazies suggestions. Glenn ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Sarnack
Date Posted: August 12 2015 at 8:46pm
| I agree with Glen and I'm so sorry for you Marcos. I'm in the process of selling my motorcycle to get a tank started, and until this post I was set on the Artisan II 70 gallon. Needless to say I'll be looking for another vendor, so add that to your ammo for their horrible customer service that doesn't match their premium pricing. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 4:26am
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It's interesting that a person with such inexperience with bulkheads and drilled tanks would at one point admit that they are inexperienced and yet then be so adamant that the problem was not theirs but instead caused by the manufacturer. Everyone looking at this thread should be aware that when a bulkhead is overly tightened, two separate problems can occur: - the seal becomes compressed so that it loses it's intended rubbery properties, which when tightened properly, allow the bulkhead to move slightly while retaining the watertight seal. When that flexibility is diminished by overtightening, any sideways pressure on the bulkhead, even the sideways pressure of the wrench on the nut and especially a minuscule movement of rigid PVC pipe solidly glued in to the bulkhead, acts like a lever exerting pressure sufficient to compromise the glass. A crack may not be visible immediately, but the glass has already been compromised leading to future failure. It's wise to remember, glass is a viscous liquid that gives way (separates) under pressure. - Secondly, these black plastic bulkheads we use are very soft plastic. They are not PVC plastic, but a version of Vinyl (like Vinyl tubing). When over tightened, they split, crack. bend, slip and fail. They are actually a good match for the viscous liquid (glass) they are used on. Lastly, and equally important, a properly tightened bulkhead and extended piping must be handled with "kid gloves" or either it or the glass will surely fail, sooner or later. Sorry.  Aloha, Mark
 ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:12am
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Wow Mark, Way to show some compassion. Apparently you have forgotten that new tanks don't come with information on how to install bulkheads or how tight to make them. I'm sure in all your years of reefing it's come second nature to you after making mistakes to figure it out. Apparently the same is not allowed of other reefers? We aren't saying that this is a "manufacturing" problem. It is however a "manufacturer" problem in that they failed to properly instruct how to install an item, that they supply with the tank, to prevent damage to their product. Even you should be able to see the error in this. If there is a proper and an improper way to install something on your product and you don't inform the buyer of this information you better bet that the issue is yours when they do it wrong. Your statement above also assumes that the molding of the bulkhead is perfectly smooth with no seam ridges from the injection mold. I have had many that had excess plastic along those seams and if you don't trim it off it can create a point of higher pressure under the bulkhead. As you mention that "glass is a viscous liquid the gives way under pressure" this small ridge in the plastic can be enough to cause a separation in the glass. Do you trim, sand or smooth all of your bulkheads before installation? If not you too are improperly installing bulkheads on your systems. A little compassion and understanding, maybe even relating things back to your early days when you didn't know everything, might be more helpful in this instance. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:19am
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Hi Glenn, You are right, we both went through that trouble with the bulkheads and you helped me out a bit on that. I am not as handy as you, so I had to take the route of having Cadlights send the items cut correctly to me. I was actually documenting all of my errors last night and ran across an email from them for the bulkhead issue. I had documented that Jason (I think a manager) advised me that they bought a circular saw to cut bulkheads as issues arose. It was good to know, but they were doing the fixing retroactively after they heard of issues versus proactively fixing them and shipping with new sales. I totally agree on the glass cracking. I certainly did not over tighten with a tool or any other way. Its actually a bit tough to tighten with your hands in such a tight area anyway. I will continue to pursue this and am pretty confident they will provide a replacement tank or pay someone to fix the tank. Thanks! Hi Sarnack, Thank you very much for the support. I am torn about Cadlights still; the tank is pretty but their support when issues arise is horrible. Structurally though, I have read a number of posts about the tanks failing. Of course, any tank could fail and I do not know how much they sell versus what actually fails to know if their percentage is high. If I could do it over, I would have a local company build a tank for me and have a nice cabinet made. I ended up replacing the skimmer and return on my tank anyway, so its like I paid a super high price for just a tank and stand. Thanks! Mark, Of course you are here to say something… either negative or opposite of what others are saying. Years ago, I had a lecture course with this man/kid that would interrupt the professor all of the time to give his opinion on something or question the professor about his answer. It was predictable that he when he would speak up, that he and the professor would debate over something. I am still not certain if this man/kid this for attention or not; he was in his own little world and liked to listen to himself talk. I don't hate him, but he was pretty f**king annoying. I still don't know if you just like to harass people or are bad at communicating. I am not the professor. Either way, I am very inexperienced when it comes to bulkheads and how they are engineered and I admit this over and over. I will never be proficient in them or have a desire. I don't imagine you have the right tools to even determine the point that defines too loose or too tight. I blame the manufacturer as most people would; it was working, sitting, and then a crack was discovered. I know the tank was not hit, rocks did not fall, or any other issues happened. Its logical that anyone would think the tank broke on its own. I will continue to pursue the tank manufacturer and blame them for issues. If you want, you are welcome to bring your testing materials, look at my tank, and blame me for the damage. :) Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:41am
Mark, You are off base here. You know nothing about the bulkheads and plumbing that come with the Cadlight tanks or you would not have made the comments you did above. The tanks do not ship with standard bulkheads that we are used to using in the hobby. Although the ones I used on my 210 are PVC. Basically Cadlights uses chines (guessing) PVC that uses a threaded piece of PVC between two flanges with rubber gaskets. The threaded piece they had been sending when our takes were purchased had been cut too long. So when you assembled the parts they would not compress the rubber gaskets causing a leak. Also, remember these are tanks that are sold as complete kits marketed to new customers and come with no instructions on how to install the fittings. I had the same issues with the bulkheads as Marcos and many others at the time. I challenge you to take a piece of 1/2" glass with a properly drilled and feathered/blended 1 1/4" hole in it and crack the glass by either over tightening a bulkhead fitting or putting sideways force on 6" piece of PVC. I would bet it can not be done prior to the PVC failing. This is not schedule 40 PVC, it is more like the PVC 100 or thinner when you talk wall thickness. Glenn ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Mark Peterson wrote:Posted By: dmw913
Date Posted: August 13 2015 at 9:52pm
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Marcoss, Ugh, so sorry to hear about the crack. That just sucks! Glad you got everything out before a full-on disaster. Have you given any thought to getting some local feedback from the folks at ReefOn since they are a distributor of CadLights? They have been amazing to me and may have some very helpful feedback. Additionally, if they agree that the issue was tank-based, it might really go a long way in your negotiations with CadLights corporate. Best of luck with re-setting. Denise PS: Nice to see an American Fork guy here. Go Cavemen! (Class of '92!!!)
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 6:59am
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Denise has a great idea. I agree with her recomendation. Jerry/ReefOn is a great resource. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: ptronsp
Date Posted: August 14 2015 at 4:51pm
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Oh WOW Suprise Mark is off base!! SO completely off base. Marcos I am so sorry this has happened. What a mess. Pam ------------- The only clowns I like are in my tank! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 5:46am
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What's the deal with cad lights aquariums? If they are so poorly built and have such lousy customer service, why buy one? Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 9:16am
Good question. I love the tank (glass). Not many off the shelf low iron tanks out there. I would never buy a system for them again. I would maybe buy a undrilled tank from them. But it is a fact their customer service sucks, it is all over the web. I know Marcos is persistent and I hope that pays off for him. Glenn ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 7:18pm
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Denise You have no idea how glad I am it did not explode or have a major leak. My wife was already hesitant on letting me place it in that room (not really but you could tell she didn't want it there, but since we are married, she had to say yes ). It took me a while to convince her tanks did not leak and were safe, she probably thinks I have the worst luck now.I did not think of reaching out to a local reseller but I may just have to pick their brains. Thanks for the suggestion! All is great with the livestock. :) The fish love their new home! But I still want to get them back into their old one. Marcos PS. I work in American Fork and live around, but grew up all over. Mostly in Saint George. I think we had a biplane as our mascot. Go biplanes? Sounds kind of lame. Pam, Thanks! Luckily I caught it right in time. I'm not the type to believe stuff happens for a reason...but maybe it does. Mark, Glenn sums it up nicely; they seem to have nice items and when you first talk to them, they prove the rumors wrong. Its when something goes wrong, that what you read online is true. I personally gave them the benefit of the doubt. I figured some people were dramatic in what they were saying and that most people were happy and quiet. I was not as lucky to have a great experience. I'm with Glenn, I would own their glass, well, not after what is going on, but I would never buy one of their systems. I am super nervous about having my tank eventually replaced. Statically, its unlikely I will get hit twice with a bad tank, but you just never know. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 7:26pm
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tl;dr I say buy a new tank. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 7:38pm
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Adam That's always an option but obviously my last. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: Elite-Aquatics
Date Posted: August 15 2015 at 10:08pm
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Those holes are drilled way to close together imo ------------- Premium aquarium filtration! |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: August 16 2015 at 9:35pm
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Hello I had not noticed how close they were together until you said this. I looked at my other tank and they are much further apart. I actually found another tank like mine that cracked the same way on Nano Reef. Maybe poor drilling. Thanks for the feedback. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: uteman58
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 6:30pm
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I realize this post is a few weeks old, but holy cow? A little civility here? I appreciate Mark's willingness to jump in and share his knowledge. I appreciate Jeff's experience with Cad Light's. Aren't we all here to help each other? I am pretty new to the WMAS so I don't know but whatever ax is to grind between Jeff and Mark, please sheath it! I just want to be allowed review both Mark and Jeff's posts without BS editorials attacking one another. Please grow up guy's! ------------- Creating ocean puddles in an alkaline state. |
Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: August 28 2015 at 9:22pm
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Could you please show where I attacked him? I asked him to be a little more considerate and then immediately addressed both his concerns and the OP's to get back on track. I have no beef with Mark. I've only met him a couple times. I simply wanted to curb where that post was going to take things and redirect it back to the topic. I'm sorry if you don't think that's what it was. ------------- My ocean. 90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread: |