Zoas not Opening
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Softies
Forum Description: This is the place to ask questions soft corals.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=75351
Printed Date: January 13 2025 at 11:46pm
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Topic: Zoas not Opening
Posted By: relethg
Subject: Zoas not Opening
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 10:27am
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I have about 6 different kinds of Zoas in my
45 gallon shallow. I have two small colonies (12-16 heads) that extend but only
a few open all the way. Most just extend and they extend further than they did
when purchased (by double) and they have grown in numbers from 8 in the
last 45 days.
Why are they not opening? I have moved them in and out of flow, changed the amount of light they get, blasted them with turkey baster, and even rubbed them. I don't understand how they are multiplying but not opening if they are not happy. What else can I try? Will try and get some pictures up, but I am working on getting the 210 wet. Tank parameters: http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74112&title=tank-cycle-numbers" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=74112&title=tank-cycle-numbers Temp 78 Salinity 1.025 PH 8 Alk 8.4 DKH Ca 430 Mg 1200 No2 0.1 No3 2 PO4 0 NH3 0 ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Replies:
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 10:33am
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I don't know why they are not opening, but food might help. Have you tempted them to open with something like Reef Roids/Reef Chili? Opens mine every time. ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: bstuver
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 10:41am
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Have you looked at them really close at night with a flash light? Making sure they don't have any zoa eating nudibranchs as they will irritate them and cause them not to open. ------------- Jackie Stuver "wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas? I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 10:42am
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I have dusted them with reef roids with the turkey baster. I also feed the tank weekly with BSD and new wave products. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 10:44am
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I have not and will check that tonight. Thanks ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
bstuver wrote:Posted By: proskier101
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 11:21am
| since it is a shallow tank...could the lighting be too intense? they arent opening since its too much? |
Posted By: Bryce
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 11:28am
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Mine always close up when the multiply, close a few days then a baby appears. ------------- 65g Reef |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 11:28am
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I have only ever had four things cause a situation like this when my parameters were in check. 1 ) Zoa Pox 2 ) Zoa Eating Nudibranch 3 ) salinity swings 4 ) acclimation
Furan-II can be successfully used to get rid of zoa pox. If you look carefully at your zoanthids and see white pimples all over the polyps and stalks, it is likely zoa pox. Some paly's have naturaly white speckling don't panic if you see that, if you see physical bumps it is the POXXXX Zoa eating nudi's are a different beast all together. You're in for a fun ride if you find them. A wrasse never hurts if you can get it to eat them. Do you have an auto top-off? If you don't, I suggest getting one. Some zoanthids are extremely sensitive to even the smallest salinity swings Zoanthids, especially new ones, sometimes take 1-3 months to adapt to new lighting. I've had zoanthids not open up for a month, then once they adjusted were healthy and happy from that moment going forward. It is also a possibility that they are still acclimating to your conditions. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 12:40pm
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I have lowered the intensity of the lights for them. Too the point that the other corals stopped opening fully. I have moved them so they would get different light. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 12:57pm
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I've blasted zoanthids with some pretty beefy lights, they don't seem to mind high intensity lighting. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 1:41pm
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I also find that true, I had turned my whites up to high and smoked a birds nest frag and all the zoas Loved it. I think (or) hope the birds nest is coming back. The Radion Pro just has more white power than can be used in this shallow of a tank even with the 120 degree lenses. It must be a pest I have not seen. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 1:46pm
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Here I go again. Saying stuff I don't know about... I have noticed that some of my zoas do well in places that they are not recommend in. For instance, I have zoas that are red/blue/gold in higher areas than I have my green zoas. I have noticed that the aforementioned colors each do better in certain areas. That goes against what people say is common. I also have a leather that is sitting next to an SPS. It only ever gets extension up there, but when I bring it down lower, it acts dead. Even after letting it adjust for days. I used to put green zoas up with the red/blue/gold, but they did not perform as well. Long story short; it might be placement. Some zoas might do well where they are and others not. Thats the awesome thing about this hobby; everything is unique. Marcos ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 1:55pm
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Marcoss, I think you comments are spot on. I wish there was some hard fast rules for corals, but instead it is just guidelines for lighting. The lighting part of this hobby is turning out to be the most difficult to figure out and I don't want to earn a doctorate in lighting to figure it out. I love my light I only wish I new what the corals needed so I can provide them exactly what they need. What I have read and the club meeting we just had has been helpful. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 2:12pm
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Out in left field question, do you dose anything for nitrate control? ------------- 90 gal reef w/refugium 24 gal softie tank 11 gal nano anemone tank 5 gal fresh water |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 2:20pm
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No, I dose Ca and alk (BRS two part) with a dosser and mag once a month. I run GAC all the time and GFO when needed. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Marcoss
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 3:51pm
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I just observed my cleaner shrimp hovering/swimming over my zoa and paly area. The closure of each was like a domino effect. Some are still not open. Do you think something, I assume harmless in this case, is touching and agitatingn the Zoas? Could explain why some on the same frag are okay. Just an observation. ------------- RedSea Max S400 - 90G Rimless Frag Tanks x2 - 185 Lookdown Bin |
Posted By: proskier101
Date Posted: March 17 2015 at 3:54pm
| my gf cleaner plays the palys like a drum set. just hits everyone of them to close them the runs off to the next rock and hits them all once. |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 8:39am
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OK 3 AM check complete. I was up anyway putting third batch of water in the 210. I have these very little white dots that move on the two colonies that are not opening. They are like half a grain of sand in size. I thought Nudi's are bigger. Anyway I want to dip them in Bayer, will that work? Then do it about every 5 days for a couple of weeks. Thanks for all the help. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: proskier101
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 9:13am
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before you do that. could those be copods? size is about right.
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Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 9:18am
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They look smaller than any pods I have seen. And they are only on those two colonies. Like I say they are a moving white spec, about half a grain of sand and white in color. Are there pods like that? ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: proskier101
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 9:25am
i was thinking half a grain of rice for some reason. not sure what they are. IMO if you dip them and you kill good pod/critters. they will grow back. if you dip and kill bad stuff. well youre making progress.
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Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 10:51am
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If it was pods, what are they doing crawling on the zoas? They're not opening, and there is something on them at night. Sounds like something is munching on them. Bayers dip MIGHT help. I've had zoa eating nudibranchs that bayers did nothing for. I highly recommend doing a bayers dip and getting a hungry wrasse and seeing if that helps at all. Doing a dip at night when the critters are out might be the best idea. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 12:24pm
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What is a good dip for Nudibranch's? Other threads on Reef Central say Coral RX. I can tell you this, I have looked at a ton of photos on the internet of Zoa eating Nudibranch's and none look this small or nondescript. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 2:54pm
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Flatworm eXit worked for me with Zoa eating Nudis. -------------  |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 3:08pm
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Mike did you mix it per directions and use it as a dip? ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 3:19pm
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I'd dose the entire tank. There are more in the tank than what you're seeing on the colonies. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 3:27pm
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I would rather try and dip just the Zoas that are in the tank. They are all on removable rocks. Just don't like the idea of dosing a tank this young. And Bayer would kill my crabs and snails I thought. Or do you mean to dose the tank with flatworm exit that mike recommended? Glenn ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Pete Moss
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 3:30pm
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Flatworm exit. Don't dose the tank with bayers, that would essentially start your cycle over. ------------- 125g 90g 2x33g 34g What stores do I recommend? Up North: Bill ( Saltwater Paradise 801-317-8115 ) Down South: Jerry ( Reef On 801-563-0600 ) Member of GCFB |
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 9:55pm
I use it as a dip. I have also used it to treat small tanks at a 4X dosage but I don't really recommend this as it kills of a lot of other microfauna in the tank too. ------------- |
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 10:00pm
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IMHO the best way to get rid of them in a small tank is to look for them morning and evening on the zoa skirts and remove them. If you find them on the skirts then touch each polyp to get them to close up and check the stalks too. They normally take on the color of the skirts so can be hard to spot. Once you think you have gotten all of them then check again 10-14 days later (if memory serves me) to get the newly hatched ones too. Eventually you will win. If you do find them on a colony that can be removed from the tank then definitely dip it then inspect it under a magnifying glass and bright light. ------------- |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: March 18 2015 at 10:18pm
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What you're seeing are probably just seed shrimp (Ostracoda). They're typically harmless...most people rarely see them since most fish love them. If you don't have a ton of wrasses or other similar fish, they can live in massive numbers. My fishless tanks turned almost solid white at night when they came out. As for the zoa issue, a picture would help a ton. Otherwise, most of the suggestions are valid. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 19 2015 at 6:51pm
Sorry it has taken me so long to get pictures up. Here are the two colonies.  ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 20 2015 at 8:25pm
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Any more ideas why these two frags are not opening? The picture show what they look like during the hours the lights are running. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |
Posted By: Bryce
Date Posted: March 20 2015 at 9:18pm
They look fine, probably just adjusting, leave them alone and stop messing with them unless you have some reason to believe you have some pest but if you have dipped already would be surprising. I have hundreds upon hundreds of zoas and at any given time some are closed for days at a time, if its 2 or 3 weeks and they have not opened then I would be worried, if they begin to melt, I would be worried, if you run carbon and its not rinsed properly or its tumbling/flow is too fast and its grinding then that can irritate them as well same if GFO is tumbling too fast. I have the below patch and sometimes sections close up for days or week or so, but they always eventually open back up.  ------------- 65g Reef |
Posted By: relethg
Date Posted: March 21 2015 at 7:43am
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These two colonies had been open for over a month in my tank. The closed and have been closed for almost three weeks now. I did stop GFO for a week no change. I run my GFO and GAC into a bucket using RO water before I put it in service. I don't tumble the GAC and just a surface tumble on the GFO. They are not melting, as a matter of fact they are still making more heads. That is what I is weird, they don't open but they are propagating. It is not that I am so worried but these are two of the zoas the wife and I like the most and they don't open. Plus if this was an early stage of something it would be nice to catch early. ------------- 210 G Filled 18 Mar 15 120 G Filled 11 Jun 16 |