EDITED
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: DIY
Forum Description: Do it Yourself
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=65630
Printed Date: July 13 2025 at 4:06pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: EDITED
Posted By: Molli
Subject: EDITED
Date Posted: July 21 2013 at 8:18am
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If I could delete this thread I would as it wasn't my intention when I asked the original question for it to wander off the path and become an "I know more than you do" kinda topic. Thanks to those who directly answered my question; I appreciate that.
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Replies:
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 8:05am
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Aloha, In my suspended reef, the front apron was about 4" and there was 6" under the reef for the fish to swim around. Curious why bare bottom? What information did you find that suggests it? The reason I ask is because this was a method popularized during the 1990's. especially in Europe when skimmers were improving and detritus was seen as a big problem. (Skimmers have improved a lot since then and we have discovered that detritus is coral food.) I assume there is going to be a good sump/Refugium with a skimmer, right? Everything gets coralline algae on it, even the bottom glass and acrylic supports so the clear effect diminishes over time. Aloha, Mark  ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 8:52am
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Posted By: fishnfresh
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 1:19pm
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I am thinking going bare bottom with a tank Aquatic Dreams has one and I love the look now that it has grown on me. Why does it matter if someone wants to go barebottom? There are tons of people on R2R that have and there tanks thrive. That would be my only worry would be stacking the rock just make sure if you do it is solid if you do hope to see pics. |
Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 1:28pm
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Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 5:23pm
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Sounds like you will be setting up a good looking tank, but you have some misinformation about sandbeds, coral and the ocean reefs. I've been farming coral for profit since 1998 and lived near the wild reefs for 2 years. I'm not trying to talk you out of it but you did come here asking questions. Wouldn't you like to have the facts before making a final decision? Just a note - One of the "pros" about going bare bottom with an acrylic tank is that it doesn't matter when a rock falls. The acrylic won't be harmed and won't crack like a glass tank bottom would when a large rock falls on it. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: ch3tt
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 6:44pm
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Mark, I have never said anything like this on the forums and i hate forum drama. No disrespect, but leave her alone!!! It sounds like she has done her research and wants to setup the tank with a bare bottom. It doesn't matter the reason, if she wants to do it let her do it! not everyone likes the type or look of tanks you keep. We all know you have been in the hobby for a long time but you are not the only person who knows how to setup a reef tank. Sometimes its just okay to keep your opinions to yourself. Again no disrespect, thanks! ------------- Red Sea Reefer 625 XXL |
Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 7:06pm
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Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 7:46pm
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I have a question about them IF you don't mind me asking, (your thread not mine). When you do a BB tank do you still do a refugium with sand or go with just a sump with equipment?
------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 7:55pm
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Posted By: Lewy
Date Posted: July 22 2013 at 8:43pm
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Thank you. I may have to try one to see what I like better. ------------- 40 gal w/ 20 sump |
Posted By: fishnfresh
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:47am
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only question I see is "These half balls come in all different sizes (you glue the flat side to the rock and the ball side sits on the bottom of the tank). Just looking for suggestions about how high up my rock should be from the tank bottom to allow for good flow underneath the rock?" just sayin |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 8:43am
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This forum is open to all to voice their opinions and discover factual information. I have nothing against this method of setting up a tank. I have seen some nice bare bottom tanks, but I have a problem with decisions that are made based on incorrect information. Should misinformation be allowed to stand as fact? Should honest opinions, questions and discussion be censured? If this were allowed to happen, then this forum would become something it's founders never intended and it would become a useless forum. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 8:59am
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Back on topic -
If you are having Ceramco make you custom Vida Rock pieces, perhaps you could have them design pieces with 'legs' to avoid having to use those acrylic half - balls at all?
I'm sure they could come up with pieces that would look nice and still be functional at the same time.
As far as the original question of 'how high off the bottom?"... I would say 2 - 4 inches should be plenty of clearance to allow sufficent water movement underneath the rock structure.
And fish to swim under, etc
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 10:07am
Mark, old friend...
My suggestion is that, when you are expressing your opinion, remember to use phrases like "I think that..." or "I feel that..." or "perhaps you could try this..." or even "In my experience I have found that..." in your comments.
If you look at your prior posts here (and most elsewhere on this Forum) you will notice those kinds of clarifying statements of 'opinion' are missing from your posts.
Without them, your statements may come off as a just little 'authoritarian' and maybe even condescending... as in "Hear, ye! Hear, ye! THIS is the way it MUST be done - Why? Because I said so; and I am all - knowing and always right..."
I know that is not your intent. But sometimes your well - meaning and helpful content is getting obscured by a perceived subtle 'tone' or attitude in the presentation of your comments...
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Mark Peterson wrote:Posted By: ch3tt
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 11:22am
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Well put Bob, my thoughts exactly. I apologize if my post came off as rude, not my intention. Molli, I apologize for getting your thread off topic. Back to the bare bottom talk! ------------- Red Sea Reefer 625 XXL |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 12:57pm
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Okay thanks Bob, let me try that. I know that I often come off as abrupt and sometimes condescending. Please consider my apology. It is a behavior that I have worked on for years to try and change, though it is perhaps the most difficult thing I have ever encountered. I am really just trying to help hobbyists have a good experience with their aquariums and avoid the problems other hobbyists have already experienced. My opinion is based on perhaps outdated experience and knowledge. I have not seen a bare bottom tank for many years. If I recall, those who tried bare bottom tanks eventually abandoned the method because they found the tank was more stable with an aragonite sand bed. Because the reef aquarium hobby has such high turnover of hobbyists, new hobbyists often attempt to use previously tried methods. This is an observation from my viewpoint and memory. Take it for what it's worth. Bare bottom tanks seemed to be more difficult for the following reasons: 1. It seems that their owners were always having to clean up detritus (My understanding of detritus is that each clump is billions of good bacteria breaking down waste particles. In moderate amounts it actually seems to be a good thing); 2. I noticed that dosing and water changes appeared to be more critical because there was no sand bed to help buffer Alk and Ca (I visited a hobbyist yesterday that does not need to dose Alk or Ca and has not done a water change in months, yet the tank is doing marvelous. Monthly maintenance mostly involves harvesting the rapid growth of a beautiful red algae. This year old tank has a 6" DSB); 3. With a bare bottom tank, when dosing fails, because there is no natural buffering, the tank seems to struggle and may easily crash. 4. I have seen that nuisance algae tends to be harder to deal with because snails and hermits have a tougher time getting back up on the rock after they fall (Vida rock legs could ease this difficulty, but "it's my opinion" (based on fact) that because Vida rock is mostly ceramic, it unfortunately has very little buffering capacity); 5. The biofiltration capacity seems to me to be significantly diminished because of the lack of beneficial bacteria, worms and bugs that would normally populate LS (and feed the reef). 6. I believe that because of reduced biofiltration, the hobbyist with a bare bottom tank may find themselves restricted to a minimal bioload and/or may have to lean more heavily on skimmers and other electrical equipment to keep the tank going. 7. During a power outage a bare bottom tank that is dependent on electrical equipment for its filtration is more prone to suffer. (I'm sorry, but in good conscience I could not say it any other way) I have seen hundreds of ways that different reef tank set ups do well, when the hobbyists devote the extra time and resources to account for limitations. And finally, in my experience I have learned that it is not that difficult to avoid acrylic tank scratches and further, I would be happy to explain how scratches can be sanded out during normal maintenance while the tank is running. Just offering my 2 cents in hopes that it will help. Aloha, Mark ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: chuckfu
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 2:35pm
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I used to have the same opinions of Mark before I met him. I met him on the Reef Tour this year and found he was very polite, informative and eager to listen to me talk on and on about my tank. I don't think he gave me any advice and we just sat and had a nice discussion for awhile about our tanks.
I've noticed on this forum that when Mark has a opinion everyone is quick to jump on the bashing board.... others will give ( force ) their opinion on people looking for help and nothing is ever said to them.
Molli,
Sorry for the off topic post. Back to the topic. I love bare bottom tanks and the one at Aquatic Dreams is awesome ( it's been awhile since I've seen it. Can only imagine it now! ). I agree with what Bob said and having them make the " legs " on the Vida Rock. I can't wait to see pictures in the build thread of this thing! Good luck! ------------- Try, try, try, then give up! |
Posted By: ksmart
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 4:44pm
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I want to come see this tank when it is set up! and come play with your dogs :) lol. I never did see any pics of the 65 you got from me so it would be cool to see what you've done with that as well :) ------------- |
Posted By: Nick801
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 6:21pm
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I recently set up a new 120 bare bottom after visiting world wide corals in florida =) check this tank out.... I think I just love the encrusting on the bottom of the tank of chalice favias and montis |
Posted By: fishnfresh
Date Posted: July 23 2013 at 11:23pm
| That is sweet it is like Aquatic Dreams tank with the montis encrusting on the bottom. My question is how the heck you frag them lol. Sorry also Mollie for the derail I am interested in doing a BB also. So if you do hope you do build pics and updates on how it goes. i love the clean look. |
Posted By: Snowsrfr
Date Posted: July 24 2013 at 8:18am
Sorry to see that it has come to this. You have met the scourge of WMAS. Try your best to put this out of your head and soldier on. Being in Bountiful, I highly recommend making a trip up north to check out Aquatic Dreams bare bottom 65 galling Red Sea. Try to do it when Ryan, the owner is in (usually on Saturday), as he'll be the best person to talk to about the ins and outs of what make his bare bottom so amazing. I would also bend Nick's (Nick801) ear on the subject. I sold him some stereo equipment a few months ago and his 93 cube is undoubtedly one of the best tanks in Utah. He also showed me his bare bottom set up and it was it was looking awesome even I'm the initial set up/cycling phase. Good luck! ------------- "A fish tank is not a pet. It's a TV that you gotta feed." - John Caparulo |