2-part dosing amounts
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Topic: 2-part dosing amounts
Posted By: 96slowbra
Subject: 2-part dosing amounts
Date Posted: October 28 2012 at 9:53pm
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I have been running brs 2-part for about 6 months, and I can't seem to keep my levels high enough. I know that if salinity is low or mag then it is much more difficult to maintain cal/alk. I am at 1.025 and 1300 on mag. I have a new redsea test kit. I have less than 10 sps corals, and 1 small clam in my 60ish gallon system. I am dosing 55 ml of cal and alk daily with brs dosing pumps and my Apex. Seems like a lot for a mostly lps tank. I just checked my levels tonight and I am 350 cal and 9.8 alk. ------------- 105 rimless |
Replies:
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: October 28 2012 at 10:50pm
| Yeah that seems a little excessive. I dose about 80 ml a day of each and my 120g is pretty heavily stocked with sps colonies. Are you using recipe 1 or 2? How fast is your coraline growing? |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: October 28 2012 at 10:50pm
| I assume this is the 54g in your sig? |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 28 2012 at 11:14pm
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Coraline has slowed down. Recipe 1. I do 5 gallon monthly water changes, redsea coral products salt. And yeah, tank in the sig. ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 12:45am
| I too have had this issue in the past...I found my levels are more consistent when I keep mag around 1400.... |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 9:55am
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I have used the reef chemistry calculator to get my mag over 1300, but it doesn't seem to get over 1300.. I'll try again ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 9:57am
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It says I need to add 16oz. How many days should I split that over? In the past when adding a manual dose I have had problems when I just add calcium. Has anyone had problems by not increasing both together? ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 11:40am
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I've noticed I have to dose what seems excessive when I have a clam...they suck up a lot. You may find it is cheaper and easier to just increase your water changes than to fiddle with dosing right now. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 11:46am
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Never thought of that. What type of calcium level on new water? ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 11:57am
Over the course of 1-2 days should be fine, however, I've safely raised my mag by 100 throughout the course of a day with no problems....watch your salinity levels while raising though, you may notice it spike a little as you increase Mag |
96slowbra wrote:Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 11:57am
| You can safely add that mag all in one day. I would just split it up over a few doses. I also try to keep mine a little high around 1400. My problem is I always forget to dose mag and by the time I remember I have to dose a ton. |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 12:17pm
I would not suggest this route, as most affordable salts are not in complete balance. Thus, you may find yourself on a never ending chase of the perfect balance of water parameters. In other words, water changes can often complicate your levels when trying to achieve complete balance when dosing. Once you get your levels in balance, it will literally be set and forget....until you do a waterchange, then you need to test  to determine it's impact. In addition, you need to be dosing the 2-part solution equally, not raising and lowering them together can lead to a difficult balancing act and precip. Please refer to Randy's articles on the subject, as his expert advice has brought great success to my tank. http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php" rel="nofollow - http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-02/rhf/index.php You can skip through the DIY recipe and review the dosing instructions. Another thing I have found helpful to dial things in is to turn off your automatic dosers completely. Dose alk and cal (& Mag) by hand until you're at the desired levels. Then wait exactly 24 hours and test again. Record how much your levels dropped in the 24 hours. Then use those numbers and this calculator http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html" rel="nofollow - http://reef.diesyst.com/chemcalc/chemcalc.html to figure out the daily consumption of your tank and how much you need to dose per day to maintain your tank at your desired levels. I did this and found I was overdosing, leading to precip. and Cal/Alk cancelling each other out basically...turned my fine sand into live sheet rock too  .This can be frustrating, but once you dial it in after a week or so of testing, it can make your reefing experience much better. |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 12:20pm
| As far as increasing ethier cal or alk when one is on target and the other is low. It can be a serious pain. It happens cause your levels aren't balanced and cal, alk, and mag all play off each other so you try to add just cal and your alk drops etc. I agree with reefdup sometimes ( if they are really out of wack) it is just easier to correct the problem by doing a big water change. However I have had success by continuing to add the same amount of alk every day and just adding more cal they will usually balance out pretty fast. With brs two part I always seem to have to add a little more of one or the other to keep them balanced. My therory is it is because no matter how much you try to be precise when mixing the ingredents one or the other always becomes a little stronger so it takes a lttle more to have the same affect. Haha I hope I am making sense. |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 12:24pm
| And sorry about the grammer my new phone doesn't work with my fat fingers lol |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 1:16pm
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I'm pretty new to reefing, almost a year with my current tank. Only been dosing for 6 months of that... On my 120 build i plan on using calcium reactor. I hear that they are great once you get them dialed in. I really appreciate the fast feedback. ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 1:21pm
 Today ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: Molli
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 1:41pm
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Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 2:01pm
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That will only take you so far... Once you fill your reef with corals all the things we love the consumption rate is more than water changes can support. But it isn't that bad. I have just been lazy and haven't checked my water in a month. I also neglected it a little after I moved, I left it in my roommates house for almost 2 weeks, then moved it and have been lazy. I hated my new aquascaping so much that I got lazy. Last weekend I fixed it, now I getting it back on track. My 2-part system has been great, but my corals are just getting bigger and i haven't turned it up there till I was way behind ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 4:30pm
I suggested increased water changes as the OP is not dosing a lot, is fairly new to reefing, has a smallish tank, is only <10% water changes per month, and is having some difficulty figuring out dosing. For many people in that sort of situation, a water change is much more simple and easy than constant testing to figure out dosing amounts and how much a water change impacted the dosing amounts. Although no salt is perfect, a good one will replenish levels (probably back up to NSW levels in his case), and natural precipitation will balance it out. Even if the OP goes to 10% weekly water changes, a bucket of decent salt for ~$50 will last him 10 months. This will also help replenish trace elements that the average aquarist can't test for. IMO, keep things as simple as possible until you're really ready. Dosing isn't difficult once you get the hang of it, but at this point...is it worth it for you? ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 4:59pm
I disagree, and this is why: 1. He is in fact dosing a lot...55 ml a day for a 60 gallon tank, accounting for rock, is more than 1 ml uptake per gallon water.....at this dosage, a drop of 1 dkh of alk could occur in 1-2 days...swings are bad... 2. Water changes used to chase water parameters is a band-aid approach....sooner or later you need to dose and figure it out....especially taking note of his caps in his tank shot, they're alk hungry 3. Yes his tank is small, making it easier to dose and change levels....water changes on small tanks actually increase the subsequent risk for alk swings, which can be detrimental 4. Working through this is a great way for him to learn about his tank and about caring for his corals from a long-term standpoint. Yes, he states he is "new" to reefing, but his tank shot and questions alone tell a different story. |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 5:24pm
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Bur - Although I'm arguing with you, I'm really only doing it to play devil's advocate. I dose...it's no big deal to me. But, it's not for everything, so I'm just playing the other side. Ultimately it's up to him as he has to find what works for him. He did mention he neglected his tank for a while...which supports the dosing routine (although we all know we shouldn't dose if we don't test.) Yes, it's good to learn dosing, but <10% a month on water changes isn't a lot...he could probably stand to bump up the frequency a bit. He would probably notice more benefits from increased water changes (less nitrates/phosphates, more stable trace elements, etc.) than he would from keeping his Alk within +/-1dkh. 1. 1ml/gallon/day is not a lot. When I was dosing 300ml each of alk/ca/mag on my little 40g...THAT was a lot. 1ml/gallon/day can usually be fixed with more frequent water changes. A tank stocked like his shouldn't need dosing yet...except maybe if the clam is growing a lot right now...or he just doesn't feel like doing water changes. 2. He's chasing parameters with dosing right now, so how is continuing this a good thing? Not all reefkeepers have to dose. Yes, it's good, and it's ideal...but it's not for everyone. The amount of testing required up front, the calculating, the extra supplies (which some significant others frown upon), etc may not be worth the hassle. Caps don't tolerate low alk well, but they can handle swings between water changes to some extent. We aren't talking about a fully stocked Acropora tank with the rarest of the rare. 3. More frequent water changes are not going to hurt anything. Again, it's not going to maintain alk 100% perfectly steady, but it'll be close enough to probably not cause problems for a while. 4. Agree completely. ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: bur01014
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 5:55pm
Agree to disagree I suppose ...nonetheless, I shared my perspective, so will call it quits for now  |
Posted By: ReefdUp
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 6:03pm
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I agree with you...it's ok. Hehheh. Just thought I'd give a different perspective. :D ------------- www.reefdup.com Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987 200g, 75g, & 15g Systems PADI Advanced Open Water |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: October 29 2012 at 6:17pm
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As mentioned above the dosing has been going well for over 6 months. Every other month or so I did a single manual dose to keep my calcium at 450, but other than that it stayed perfect. I am very consistent with my tank maintenence and anyone that has seen it knows I have never let it go. I just got a little lazy with additional dosing... I'm blocks away from aquatic dreams, so i'll swing by tomorrow and have them double check my parameters too. In the meantime I will increase mag to 1400, as suggested, keep dosers running, and manually dose cal/alk over the next week. I will probably dose minimal amount of alk, just to stop it from getting consumed by calcium. ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: November 03 2012 at 8:36pm
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Update: I left 2-part system running. Dosed 4 ounces 2x daily mag Dosed 4 ounces 2x daily of cal Dosed 2 ounces 1x daily of alk Mag 1400 Cal 450 Alk 9.8 ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: December 17 2012 at 8:56pm
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No matter what I do, after 1 week my calendar falls below 400 and alk daily sits at 9.8. I went from around 50ml daily to 92.5ml daily and still cal falls and alk stays constant. Salinity is still right on and mag is at 1320. I'll dose it up to 1450 over the next 24 hours then test again. ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: suiso man
Date Posted: December 19 2012 at 8:16pm
| if you don't have that many sps what is taking it the clam? I know somebody that doesn't do dosing at all just does a water change every 30 days and has no problem growing lps at all. Are you sure your test is right? |
Posted By: wickedsnowman
Date Posted: December 19 2012 at 10:53pm
| Even if you don't have a ton of sps coraline algae can eat up that stuff pretty quick. |
Posted By: 96slowbra
Date Posted: December 19 2012 at 11:54pm
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The sps pieces I have are getting pretty big. Aquatic dreams double checked my test and the numbers were identical. ------------- 105 rimless |
Posted By: Dionysus
Date Posted: December 20 2012 at 12:20am
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I dose 30 ml of recipe 1 alk into my 29 gallon tank.
------------- AquaMedic 250 Watt XM 20k 2 420s Vhos 29 DT SPS Dominant 20 G Long Frag http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=56607&title=dionysus-tank-build" rel="nofollow - My Tank Progress =) |