Alkalinity
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Reef Chemistry
Forum Description: A place to discuss reef chemistry.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42631
Printed Date: June 26 2025 at 12:12pm
Software Version: Web Wiz Forums 12.03 - http://www.webwizforums.com
Topic: Alkalinity
Posted By: rbrinton2373
Subject: Alkalinity
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 3:20pm
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I have a Monti Cap that has started showing signs of deteriorating health. After doing some tests on the water It is showing that my Alkalinity and Calcium are high. Alk = 20ish ppm and Calc. is around 620. I have always had a high Calcium level but am told that it generally shouldnt be problematic. but I have never had any issues with alk until now. The only thing I have changed is I added about 50lbs of LBTR to my tank. The guy at the LFS says that he has seen LBTR do some wierd things to tank chemistry. Has anyone else had problems with it (I know many people use it and that is why I chose to use it instead of Live Rock)? Or does anyone have any other suggestions that what might be causing the problem and what is the best way to get alk right? ------------- Ryan Semper Fi 60 gal cube w/39 gal Sump\ MH + T5s |
Replies:
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 6:44pm
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I can say without a doubt that if it is good LBTR and if you cleaned it properly with a high pressure spray, the LBTR is not the reason for the problem. Any past problems with LBTR have been found to be due to improper cleaning. LBTR is Calcium Carbonate, the same mineral that LR is made of. If this is true LBTR and it was cleaned properly... - First thing I would do is look at the other coral, especially SPS for signs of stress. Anything? - Second thing I would do is check my test results with that of another kit. 20ish Alk and 620 Ca is practically impossible. It would be snowing (precipitating) in the tank before getting that high. - Third, what is the pH of the tank? - Fourth, what kind of salt mix? Did it change recently? - Fifth, still thinking.  - Sixth, what is the recent history of testing results and additives? How about a pic of the tank? FYI, You can never believe the negative the LFS say about LBTR. They think it's bad for business so they ridicule it all the time, even our best, most supportive LFS has issue with it. 
------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: EagleEyez5
Date Posted: August 04 2010 at 9:11pm
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I have seen lbtr change the ph in a tank, but for the most part it is fine.
Your alk and cal can get that high if the magnesium is over 20,000. At any rate, I would have the water retested just to make sure that it was not just a bad testing. If you were close, I would just have you bring some water over. |
Posted By: rbrinton2373
Date Posted: August 05 2010 at 12:26am
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After roughly a 10% water change yesterday. The tests results were lower today than. Alk still a little high at 14-15, Calc was 460 or 480. Cant remember. ph tested ok (cant remember the exact #) nitrates were down below 10. I have not tested for magnesium though. I only have the one SPS (Monti Cap) and it is only a small frag but from the looks of it about half of it is showing signs of stress. All my other corals are doing great. I will have the magnesium tested tomorrow when I do another battery of tests.
Any other advice will be appreciated.
I will probably start replacing the LBTR with that Key Largo rock from http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=42 - http://www.marcorocks.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWCATS&Category=42 . Its not too expensive and not taking the live rock from the oceans. Mostly because I don't like the rock I have (with the exceptions of a few) and not because of the water issues. ------------- Ryan Semper Fi 60 gal cube w/39 gal Sump\ MH + T5s |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: August 05 2010 at 6:37am
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If you do go with that rock I would recommend letting it cycle in a tub for 2 weeks. That's what I did and had no problems. Make sure you test that water for phosphates just to make sure it doesn't have any.
Semper Fi ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: August 05 2010 at 7:57am
 20,000 Mg? On what scale is that? ppm? That would be impossibly high when normal Mg is 1200-1400 ppmA temporary Alk of 20 is not a big problem and an Alk of 14 is definitely okay and it is dropping. The Calcium and the Carbonate may be precipitating as crystals on the sand. You won't even see the evidence. A temporary Ca of 620 was no problem and it is dropping. The okay ranges are Alkalinity 8-14 dKH and Calcium 350-500ppm. The worst is when either of those are below range.  All other coral are fine.  You have a new tank, and you appear to be a new hobbyist with your first SPS frag. This is not so unusual for an SPS frag in a new hobbyist tank that is less than ~4 months old. SPS is a thin delicate skin over a scalpel sharp skeleton. It can die in a day. This is the hazard of SPS coral. FYI, a 10% water change, depending on which salt mix is used, would drop the Alk and Ca by roughly the same 10%, from 20 to 18 dKH and from 620 to 560 ppm. So as you may deduce, the dropping values were not aided much by the water change. The tank took care of balancing itself. I am really curious to know where you got the LBTR and how it was cleaned? The good stuff from the mudflats might give elevated Alk and Ca levels because it is so easily dissolved. Stuff that isn't thoroughly cleaned may cause some slight pollution. The pH might rise a little which is no problem at all. Overall what you experienced is a good thing. This indicates that the tank, as currently set up, can maintain good levels on it's own. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: rbrinton2373
Date Posted: August 05 2010 at 9:54am
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I am not sure where the LBTR was physically harvested. But It was cleaned before I got it (a little) and I cleaned it really well with a high pressure washer. I cleaned until all the run off was clean and then still cleaned it some more for a few minutes. I think the rock was harvested further west of the lake somewhere (not stansbury) ------------- Ryan Semper Fi 60 gal cube w/39 gal Sump\ MH + T5s |
Posted By: EagleEyez5
Date Posted: August 06 2010 at 1:13am
 whoops an extra 0 got in there..... I meant 2000. When my Mg read at 1800 (switched to oceanic right after dosing and killed a 5 gallon bucket full of milliporas) I was getting reading of alk at 16 and cal at 550.
Thats Why I suggested retesting first and foremost. |