I think you may be correct. SPS in general are less tolerant of nO3 than more hardy corals.

 

 

What are you doing in terms of trying to bring the nitrate levels down?

 

Things that could help reduce nO3 include:

 

 - Adding a protein skimmer (if you don't have one) or getting a bigger / better one (if you do)

 

 - Adding a refugium (again if you don't have one)

 

 - Adding more Live Rock into your system

 

 - More frequent partial water changes

 

 - reducing feeding amounts / frequency

 

 

 

 

Sounds like everything else is about where it should be.

 

What kind of skimmer do you have?

 

How many lbs of LR in your display?

 

most common way is using a 5g bucket filled with sand and plumbed to the sump.

About 50 lbs of live rock.

Here are some other pics to give you a better idea.

 

I only saw 1 fish in your pictures.

 

How many fish do you have in there?

two spot hogfish

2 gsm clowns

yellow watchman/pistol shrimp

blue eyed tang

target mandarin

 

I would say try out the rdsb; and if you don't see enough of an improvement, then try changing out 10g of water at a time instead of the 5g you do now...

 

Other than that I can't think of anything else.

Here is a website that help me understand alot about what are tolerable nitrates and whatnot

 

http://joejaworski.wordpress.com/2007/11/12/nitrates/ - http://joejaworski.wordpress.com/2007/11/12/nitrates/

 

edited for an addition once I read the article linked http://joejaworski.wordpress.com/2007/11/12/nitrates/ - http://joejaworski.wordpress.com/2007/11/12/nitrates/

 

From the article:

 

Not True! Utilization of protein (amino acids) = ammonia.  Ammonia is excreted by fish. Hence freshwater fish tanks are cycled by a fish that you don't feed.

 

And now totally off the nitrate topic. :)

 

Hydnophora looks like an SPS but will do better if treated as LPS.

 

Matthew

 

I guess no one has read all the posts???

 

He mentioned Hydno as SPS and was wondering how their parameters were different. In the very first post, they are not a typical SPS.

 

The article linked about halfway down page one contains some very erroneous information. I then relinked it and attempted to correct the info. The idea that fish DON'T excrete ammonia??????????? NOT TRUE

 

Or nevermind...

 

Oh i see when you just quoted a sentence of the paragraph it also caught me off guard and confused me

 

Here's the full paragraph

"The number one source of nitrates is feeding. Most nitrates come from the proteins in uneaten fish food that metabolizes into ammonia. Fish that consume the food stop the decomposition to ammonia and break the cycle. In other words, fish excrement does not contain any nitrates. Fish will eliminate the nitrates for you, as long as everything you put in the tank gets eaten. Fish feces will decompose to ammonia, but the levels are far less intense than an equivalent weight of uneaten frozen fish food breaking down in the water."

 

 

Protein = amino acids

 

The amine in amino acids = nitrogen, as amino acids are utilized this becomes = ammonia

 

So protein utilization = ammonia

 

In humans this ammonia is converted into urea, then urinated out (we lose a little to sweat) this is called the Urea cyle (or ornithine cycle).

 

In fish this ammonia is not converted much, but instead excreted mainly by the gills, and also in urine. (couldn't really call it the Urea cycle so the ornithine cycle)

 

So the fish food eaten by fish and all the rest of your invertebrates becomes ammonia, so more fish = more ammonia (even if you protein skim their poop out)

 

Anything that is photosynthetic ties up nitrogen, so macro and micro algae, sea grass, mangroves, zooxanthellae in corals.  In photosynthetic corals the zooxanthellae take up all the ammonia that coral produce and then more.

 

The amino acids in decaying fish food don't become ammonia until detrivores, bacteria ect converts it into ammonia.

 

This is where a protein skimmer to remove excess food, decaying algae, ect is effective, but this is also why you need some other method of nitrate removal.

The gsp came with the setup when I bought it 2+ years ago, in that time it has never spread. In fact it had lost almost all of its color and is just now greening up again.

Thanks for all the helpful posts, I started this thread because I was trying to figure out if the next step in improving my tank was the reduction of nitrates, or if there was another likely culprit of uninspiring coral growth, especially in the few sps colonies that I do have. I have not had much experience with the more demanding corals yet and so was looking for a little input, hopefully this helps a few more hobbyists as well. That said, let's play nice?

 

I have drastically reduced the amount of food put in the tank since starting this thread, I will check nitrates shortly and see if it has made a measurable difference yet. Any guesses on how soon I should be able to measure a difference? After just a few days, both anemones are looking happier, good indicator, or just coincidence?

I have about a dozen nassarius snails as well as a pistol shrimp who never, never stops moving sand, I don't think blowing out a little more would hurt. I have never come across any black/grey areas in the sandbed, or had any funky smells come out of it. Is this a bad thing to do?

One more question, what are some of the more hardy sps corals? I have a few monti plates that are starting to come around and show good growth, color and extension. I would guess that they are one of the easier ones?

 

Though I won't say they aren't SPS, because you very easily could classify them as SPS depending on what your criteria is . I have seen hydno described (mostly in jest) as MPS . Mine does better with lots of light, as much light as my acros get, and mine likes to be fed as well.

 

+1 to Monti digitata and Monti cap being generally easy SPS to grow. Though I have a friend that has a hard time keeping Monti's alive and does well with Acro's . In my tank Millipora's have been the easiest Acro's. Brown digitata is usually given away, most of the time the brighter nicer looking SPS are harder to grow (generally price reflects this).

 

Movement in the sadbed is not bad generally (depending on what you are trying to achieve), but will stop the denitrification ability of that sandbed.

 

Sandbeds need areas that are less disturbed to become anaerobic (without oxygen) in order to denitrify. To much of being undisturbed will result in anoxic areas that can then be an issue creating toxic compounds. For this reason many with remote deep sandbeds will replace the whole setup on a regular basis.

Here is the hydno frag I got from Nick, hasn't really grown since I got it about 4 months ago. It's in about 6" of water.

Here are test results. This is the only type of test I have ever used, is there one that is easier/more accurate. I put up 3 pics because it changes so much with viewing angle/light etc.

 

Edit ps: Oh and I hate test kits that are that non-specific and hard to read. I have bought tons when first buying kits and they bug me every time.

Wouldn't the bubbles seen in the top of the sand bed just be a lot of smaller bubbles accumulating and getting larger as they travel up from deeper in the sand bed?

Yes, I am using carbon.

Flow through the fuge is around 250-300 gph. I have a little bit of cyano in the display, but you have to look to find it, nothing like here. In addition to that you can see some of the caulerpa kind of disintegrating, while other areas are a deep healthy green color. I have never ran caulerpa before so this too is new to me. I haven't seen this in any of the tanks I take care of at work, so I'm really not sure what is going on with my macro either. I got it from Nick a few months ago and it did not look like this.

 

Why more flow? The consensus seems to be that you should process just a little more water than your skimmer can handle through your sump. A 40 gal display, with 300gph through the returns is just over a 7x turnover, again right about where most of my reading recommends me being.

 

If caulerpa takes nutrients from the water, and my trates are 20-50, what is it they are not getting that they need? Since parts of it are yellowing/fading, would it be a good idea to prune back a lot of what is in there? Does caulerpa prefer to root in sand? I have increased the light period in the fuge to 16 hours from 12, and will stop blowing the sand in the display.

 

What benefit could I expect from another sandbed in the fuge, it only measures 10x14, I didn't think that much sand would have much of an impact.

What would you say would be a good schedule to vacuum a dsb?  never?  I have heard conflicting stories on whether to vacuum a sandbed.  If I am trying to have a dsb, should I vacuum just the top and not go too deep, or just let my nassurius snails (and I plan to get a cucumber) move it around a bit?

Thanks,

Chris

Thats a good clarification, I should have said I've had conflicting recommendations from different people. 

I now get my recommendations right here.

Thanks,

Chris

 

Testing from the water exiting the fuge shows no significant change, running over 20x/hr the sump volume through it that doesn't surprise me.

 

Changes to date over the last 3 months:

     Started running a filter sock

     Cut feedings in half or even less for the last week

     Added 4 hours of light in the fuge, now at 16 hrs.

     Stopped basting the sand around the edge of the tank for the last week.

What other suggestions would any of you make? Here is what I am contemplating:

     Adding a couple inches of sand to fuge.

     24/7 lighting in fuge

     Building a coil denitrator

Question not answered in my last post,- should I cut back all of the macro that is decaying along with any that has cyano growing on it?

 

I know every tank is a little different, If I add sand that will take several weeks/months? to mature and start working, what about the other changes? Would you guys do one at a time and give it a month or so to see what affect it has? Or do it all at once?