Tank Raised Blue Tangs?
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Forum Name: Fish
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=37488
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Topic: Tank Raised Blue Tangs?
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Subject: Tank Raised Blue Tangs?
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:06pm
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I'm not looking to call out a local store or anything.... but am I the only one wanting to call BS on that post?
I find that more than difficult to believe. If true, I'd be posting some sort of documentation to back that up.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Replies:
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:21pm
| I didn't read it until after I read your post. I think someone must have made a mistake. |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:24pm
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Im not sure but they are healthy as crap and he says it comes from the same place as his tank raised clowns, apparently this guy only does tank raised fish.... ?? We will have to find out more.
------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:25pm
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Not to nitpick but tank raised does not equal tank bred. I've read recently about collecting fertilized tang eggs/really juvi babies and raising them. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:33pm
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Ah here it is! http://www.wetwebmedia.com/paracselfaqs.htm Re: Paracanthurus hepatus rearing from wild young This is an email I received from Inland Aquatics, one of the sources that sells the captive-reared Paracanthurus hepatus: ----------------- <<Can you tell me where you catch your Paracanthurus hepatus?>> Ours are "Captive Raised", meaning they are collected as larvae/post-larvae (in the Solomon Islands). They are grown out there for about a month before being shipped state-side where they are grown out for another 3 month or so. They are approximately 2" when we offer them for sale. ($39.99) --- Perhaps they are an exception to the rule? Thanks again for your well-founded insight - this is a complex industry to understand, with many environmental as well as economic considerations. Keith <Thanks much for this... do know the company and the owner/mgr. Morgan Lidster... and he is a straight shooter... If he says this is what they're doing than I believe them... Do know of (and have dived with) what I thought was the only outfit doing this "collection/rearing" procedure (in French Polynesia)... and know that they don't (of course) handle Palette/Yellow-Tail Blue/Hippo Tangs (not much in range)... Will post under genus on WWM site. Thank you again. Bob Fenner> ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:34pm
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jwoo - you are correct. Ocean-caught fry have been raised in captivity. Although, I was not aware anyone was doing it commercially.
I almost aways consider tank raised to mean tank bred and raised. We should probably start making that differentiation!
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Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:45pm
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I don't believe the fish from Solomon Islands are available at this time. In fact I don't believe they've been available stateside for a few years now.
Last time I spoke to Morgan Lidster he assured me that he no longer could get them.
I believe the preferred term would be "captive reared" but I'm still doubting that.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: grateful1
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 1:51pm
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Indeed! Such similar terminology is bound to cause confusion--i.e., people buying "tank-raised" fish thinking that their fish was bred in captivity and that their purchase is not having any effect on the reef.
Perhaps the adoption of the term used by Bob Fenner(?) above would help make the distinction. Rather than tank-raised vs. tank-bred, we could speak in terms of captive-raised vs. tank-bred. For me, the word "captive" is close enough to the word "capture" to remind me that the animal was not actually bred in a tank, but was, at one point, captured from the reef. ------------- 37g reef. Frag tank in progress. (801) 403-4006. |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:01pm
I wasn't saying that was where he got them. I have no idea where he got them. I was just referring to something I had read explaining "Captive Raised". You'll note that the article is from 2005. A quick Google Search does bring up some sites that are advertising captive raised blue tangs - however I can't get any farther because they all ask for wholesale passwords to see the availability lists. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Adam Blundell wrote:Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:09pm
| Oh If we are talking about who I think it is, then yes they are tank raised Blue hippos. They are amazing and full of health. The source where he gets them says one the price tank raised. I will look into this more and ask him today and I will call the supplier up. |
Posted By: dew2loud1
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:13pm
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lol, i just spent 20 minutes looking around after reading that post as well, I knew there were several places rearing captured ichthyoplankton of tangs. I have absolutely no problem with calling captive reared ichthyoplankton, tank raised, when you are looking at less than half a percent survival in the wild and extremely high survival in captive conditions i think it is great. There however, IMO is no way you could raise them to 3-4 inches and only sell them for $30, i would bet they would be selling them at 1/2"-1" as tiny blue tangs. Ornamentals get really expensive to raise past a certain point. I would love to hear more about this if it is legit, a high quality captive reared tang would be great. |
Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:17pm
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Dew, The ones in the store are an inch to inch and a half. ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: dew2loud1
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:30pm
| thats what i figured the add said three inches i though thats why i looked it up. It gets crazy expensive just to raise our clownfish fry past 1" i guess on a commercial scale and/if they are supplementing with wild zooplankton it could be done much cheaper with the blues. |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:31pm
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Okay so I am a little slow today. I just woke up and saw Johns post. John got these in a few days ago before the holidays and he had some nice ones around 2-3 inches. I would say there was only a few around an inch and half. These blue hippo tangs are very nice and have excellent color to them. They are by far the best looking hippos I have ever seen at that size. I have a 8"-9" blue hippo that is fat as a cow and doesn't have the blue that these have. Like I said I will talk with John and I will call the supplier up and I will let you know, but I do believe that they have been raised in a tank for a long time.
Oh has anyone heard of the monodactylus sebae? We have a local breeder for them. Do you guys know who?
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Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 2:31pm
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He could have had three inch ones - I dunno. We bought one on Sat and at that point he had sold some already. It's a really really good looking fish.
------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: Jake Pehrson
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 5:57pm
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I think most wholesalers seem to be referring to these two categories fish as "tank raised", and "tank-bred". I know many retailers are adopting the same terminology (including liveaquaria.com). Some people are also calling some fish "captive raised" and some people are differentiating this from "tank raised", although I don't quite know the difference. Maybe they don't want to say tank raised if they are being raised in ponds (or another type of holding container).
That said I have seen “tank raised” hepatus tangs available off and on. I think it is very possible that these tangs are not being collected as larvae but very small post-larvae and raised until they are sellable. ------------- Jake Pehrson Murray http://coralplanet.com" rel="nofollow - coralplanet.com http://utahbeeranch.com" rel="nofollow - :) |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 8:27pm
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So I went down there this afternoon to look at them again. They are nice looking.... I talked to the owner of Reefrunners about them. He said they are really Tank Raised. They are caught as larvae and then raised till they are about 1-2" long. He said the place he gets them from has been working on doing this with tangs for about 3 years now. He showed me there website... So I called them Sure enough he was right. They catch the larvae and then raise them for months and months till they are bigger. Then sell them. WOW its about time... so I bought the last 2! He had 15 of them and sold them out in 3 days! Hey at 29.99 for a Tank raised clown you cant beat that! He said he will get more in though from his new secret tank raised suppliers.... oh and Adam he would be glade to talk to you about it if you would like to call him.... that is at lest what he told me after reading this thread! ------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: Guests
Date Posted: December 28 2009 at 10:13pm
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Thanks Jeremy, I went down there today and they were already sold. Thanks bud. They look great though you got some nice fish. I will be waiting when he gets more. Oh and I asked him about the tank raised as well, and what Jeremy says is true right to the line. |
Posted By: SharkByteShaz
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 5:39am
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I've seen similiar sized tangs if not smaller at Birdworld but have never inquired, anyone know what Doug is carrying? ------------- HOLD MY BEER, I WANT TO TRY SOMETHING... |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 9:21am
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Well that would be awesome to say the least! The only group that I know of collecting tang larvae stopped their process a few years ago. If any local store can show that they really are getting larval raised fish then I would certainly be telling people to buy them.
I'd just hate to see a store being told that's what they are getting.... by some dishonest supplier.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 9:28am
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I did get a pm from ReefRunners saying that the fish are maricultured. Again, that would be flippin' sweet if it is true. I hope his supplier isn't yanking his chain on this and will be able to send them some recent pictures of the process to back up the suppliers claim on that.
I think a lot of people (myself included) will be rushing down there to buy some of these fish.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 11:18am
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By the way....
I just want to make it clear that I wasn't trying to dis on any store or sound negative in any way. Just the opposite in fact. If a local store really is selling captive-raised/captive-reared/maricultured/tank-grown fish then I'd be highly supportive of them.
I just hadn't heard of any of these fishes making it to our stores here yet. I'd hate for a supplier to be deceptive to a store. I was just looking for clarification if anyone else had heard of this. I wasn't really trying to call BS on a store, but I would call out a supplier who says they are tank raised without sending something else to back it up.
If it all turns out to be true and the supplier wasn't trying to deceive our local stores.... then this is AWESOME!!!!!
Adam
ps- my sources have me thinking that post larval captive grown fish could start making their way to our stores in March, but maybe it is happening now!!!! ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 11:28am
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I heard about this many years ago, but since we had never seen any for sale, just assumed it was not economical.
These related links are interesting on this subject:
http://www.ctsa.org/ProjectDetail.aspx?pID=1219 - http://www.ctsa.org/ProjectDetail.aspx?pID=1219
http://www.ctsa.org/Upload/AnnualReports/2008AnnualReport.pdf - http://www.ctsa.org/Upload/AnnualReports/2008AnnualReport.pdf
http://www.hawaii.edu/ssri/hcri/files/education/edu-res_sum-02.pdf - http://www.hawaii.edu/ssri/hcri/files/education/edu-res_sum-02.pdf
This article by http://www.breedersregistry.org - http://www.breedersregistry.org may be good reading too!
http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/Status2009.htm - http://www.breedersregistry.org/Articles/Status2009.htm ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Posted By: Shane H
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 11:34am
Fish may have to start coming with a pedigree chart - like puppies! 
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Posted By: tileman
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 12:52pm
Send them out to pasture and stud service.  ------------- 335G Reef TOTM. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/2/aquarium ReefKeepers TOTM Feb. 2012 http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month & |
Posted By: grateful1
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 1:00pm
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Right. It could get out of hand, I suppose, but I think that it would still be a better situation than the current one. I'd rather have to decide between a regular tank-bred fish and a thoroughbred than decide between a captive-raised fish and a wild-caught one.
If they can actually make this work, I say go for it!  ------------- 37g reef. Frag tank in progress. (801) 403-4006. |
Posted By: Will Spencer
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 1:31pm
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Some of the freshwater fish already do something like this. Cichlids, especially Discus, and Killi's come to mind. I think captive raising fish is a great idea. Not only for tangs, but many other species that are difficult to breed in captivity. I would absolutely support stores that are selling this types of fish. |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 2:31pm
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I have just herd through the grape vine there is going to be totally tank raised mandarin gobys that eats flake and frozen foods. They should be available in a few months.
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: dew2loud1
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 3:29pm
| They had great success with the mandarin's in last years MOFIB breeders challenge, i'm guessing these are the fruits of those labors |
Posted By: Rioreefer
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 3:31pm
That was a joke right? ------------- I dont mean to brag but, yeah it's 6ft long. |
Posted By: Mike Savage
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 3:40pm
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I belive they have been breeding Dragonets for awhile now.
Mike -------------  |
Posted By: Rioreefer
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 3:52pm
I eat my own words  ------------- I dont mean to brag but, yeah it's 6ft long. |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 4:01pm
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IT was a hot topic while I was involved with the Banjaii's. That would be cool to see! ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 5:22pm
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Breeding mandarins has been done, getting them to eat prepared foods is very common, but raising enough to penetrate the market.... well that has been a huge problem. Right now there is one facility that has taken post larval mandarins and raised them on omega foods. http://www.blueplanetreefs.com - www.blueplanetreefs.com But that is a limited supplier for the time being. They are limited by the number of baby fish (not larvae in this case) that they can collect.
It is possible that those fish will be available in large numbers to many stores in less than a year's time.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: December 29 2009 at 6:36pm
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This is another company who should have plenty for the market..
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: drysea
Date Posted: January 01 2010 at 12:13am
| So I was down that way today and he had a few more in. I have been waiting for several years to get one because they seem to be such itch magnets, I like corals better anyway. Anyway I was down there and the couple he had looked really good, not freaked out to be in an aquarium. I brought one home, acclimated it then turned it loose, IT swam around in my fingers then went swimming around; not hiding in the rocks like a wild fish. It was also happy to eat anything floating in the water. Take it for what it is worth I have never seen a fish act like that unless it has been in captivity for a while. In my opinion the BS call is inaccurate. |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: January 01 2010 at 10:30am
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Drysea- that's very good to hear. The link to the store post made the rounds and I actually received emails from experts around the country (Bob Fenner, Jake Adams, Scott Michael, etc) saying that they don't believe it. So if this does turn out to be true it would be great.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: Aquatic Evolution
Date Posted: January 01 2010 at 11:04am
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The term they use is "Tank Reared", we used to carry a lot of "Tank Reared" fish many years ago. They are wild collected larval stages of fish, unfortunately it is not very economical because you can't control what type of Larva thats being collected. We had mixed results with hardiness. Personality wise they are much less shy, but I felt somtimes they were more prone to certain diseases. My guess was they are not exposed as many Pathogens in captivity that they are in the wild. I think their Immune systems did not mature normally, just a thought though.
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Posted By: jwoo
Date Posted: February 11 2010 at 10:58pm
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Looks like these tangs are now available on liveaquaria.com as well now: http://www.liveaquaria.com/diversden/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=81632 ------------- None at the moment Soon: 72 Gallon Bowfront |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: February 11 2010 at 11:08pm
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sweet Ive also heard a rumor that another LFS is going to start carrying several different types of fish that are tank reared. ... . .. like moorish idols, angels, hippos etc... im excited for it!
------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: kellerexpress
Date Posted: February 11 2010 at 11:21pm
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I'll throw in my 2 cents, I picked up one of these 1" small tangs at reef runners last week and it has done great in my tank so far. It swims in the open all day and has literally eaten anything I have put in the tank since introducing it.(mysis, brine, pellets, flake, cyclopeeze, nori) The color is awesome too. ------------- IM 30L Kessil A160we x2 |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: February 12 2010 at 12:57am
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When we had the pet factory open we were selling a whole bunch of fish I was getting from a tank raising facility and none of them were bred in captive. We starting selling them early in 2004 so this isn't an entirely new process or term. Although I had never heard of anyone doing this will hepatus tangs. Sounds like a good idea though. ------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: thefu
Date Posted: February 12 2010 at 10:36am
| Why does it matter if they are born in captivity or captured as fry/larvae? Aren't both methods superior to capturing adults on the reef in that the collection methods are less destructive? I mean, they don't use cyanide or dynamite to capture larval fish I would think. Ultimately it would be better to breed them all in captivity, but the costs would probably make it unbelievably out of whack with wild-captured fish. This would be until some sort of outright ban is made on wild-caught forcing more people (overseas where labor and resources are cheap) to breed and raise the fish, thus increasing supply and reducing the price. |
Posted By: Chad
Date Posted: February 16 2010 at 11:01am
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It's funny to me that a lot of people are so worked up about the fish and livestock collected for the aquarium industry because it is such a small fraction of ocean life that is collected for people to eat! ------------- What?! You pooped in the refrigerator, and ate the entire wheel of cheese?! I'm not even mad.... That's actually amazing! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: February 16 2010 at 11:15am
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I completely agree with both of you.
Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: tileman
Date Posted: February 16 2010 at 12:29pm
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I saw this yesterday and if they are selling them now, then the word is out.
http://www.liveaquaria.com/DIVERSDEN/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=81720 - http://www.liveaquaria.com/DIVERSDEN/ItemDisplay.cfm?c=2733+3&ddid=81720 ------------- 335G Reef TOTM. http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2015/2/aquarium ReefKeepers TOTM Feb. 2012 http://reefkeeping.com/joomla/index....k-of-the-month & |
Posted By: Marine-Aquatics
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 12:27pm
| Marine Aquatics Inc, Will also be carrying CR Blue Tangs as well. Our first shipment will be in this week. |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 12:29pm
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Sweet! I guess its a trend now, I know that Reef Runners does, Aquatica is supposed to be getting them along with all sorts of other tank raised fish this week. Noe Marine-Aquatics... pretty much looks like within the next month or so all stores in UT will be caring them... that is so cool! Eric do you know when they are coming in and how much they will be? ------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: Crazy Tarzan
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 12:36pm
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Where's Nemo is looking at bringing them in as well (now down in Spanish Fork for us South Utah County people). ------------- Was that in there yesterday? Casper--WY windier than ? Down to a 20, soon to double or nothing |
Posted By: Marine-Aquatics
Date Posted: February 17 2010 at 12:50pm
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Yes they will be in Friday, As well as CR, Clown Fish, Neon Goby, Blue Tangs Will be $33.00 use your WMAS card and get 10% off which brings them down to $29.70
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Posted By: Aquarium Creations
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 8:34pm
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Here is a list of all the CR fish we will be carrying soon. Fish Species Angelfish (Dwarf)
Angelfish (Large)
Tangs
Butterflyfish
Anthias
------------- Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected] |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 8:43pm
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wow achilles tangs? When are you getting these in?
------------- Next meeting: |
Posted By: Marine-Aquatics
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 9:16pm
| We are hoping to have the first shipment next week, Let me know what you would like and i will make sure to get it |
Posted By: Jeremyw
Date Posted: February 18 2010 at 9:17pm
i will but it depends on how much they are I will pm you 
------------- Next meeting: |