I upgraded the next day to this:

 

And then this light crazy setup...2 days worth of growth

 

 

**********8 DAYS OF GROWTH*********

 

(I cleaned it after taking the picture above on Day 8.) 

This is the screen Day 12 - Side 1.

Side 2 Day 12

 

 

 

You definately want to harvest the algae, but never clean the mat completely. You want to make sure that you have algae intact so it will grow. On the two systems I ran them on that had only one mat I would scrape half of it at a time (half of it every week). When the algae mat was developing I would see hair algae, but as nutrients levels lowered it seemed to be the first thing to disappear.

My nitrates are about 50 ppm.  Phosphates are like nothing, but I am currently running phosban.  Should I shut down the phosban reactor to help get this started?

 

I clean socks twice a week, so keeping this harvested (if I can get it to grow at all) won't be too bad.  I like the idea of 1/2 at a time.  I took off the socks in the sump when I installed this.  The drain from the display to the sump doesn't filter over the top of this, but is right next to it.  Should I keep a sock on or off of that?  I have a large live rock underneath the scrubber, and I will probably add some rubble around that too.   I do have a sponge I could use in the area before the return pump that would keep stuff from going back in the display or clogging the pump itself.  With the socks, I didn't need to use it.

 

The tank is well established at this point and I have a good CUC in the display and lots of flow.  Hopefully that will help prevent algae in there.  Currently, there isn't any algae on the rocks.  I allow a bit of film on the glass to help keep the CUC fed.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I would leave the sock in place at least until you have your scrubber up and running with a good mat on it. After that I would run it off and on to improve water clarity and get some of the larger particulate matter out of the water column.

 

One other questions, what are you using to light this up? You need a good light source around 6500k or so to get a good growth rate on the scrubber.

 

Here are some more pics of his tank: http://www.utahreefs.com/ReefTour2004/ferrells.htm - http://www.utahreefs.com/ReefTour2004/ferrells.htm

 

I have a quad PC light over the fuge that I have shifted so that it lights both compartments.  I currently get coraline algae growing in the sump and my skimmer from this light and I have shifted it over more.  I plan to replace that with the clamp on version, but I haven't figured out a good way to clamp one on to my system so it doesn't fall in.

 

I'm not really looking to have this scrubber do all my filtering, I still have a skimmer and DBS in the fuge.  I'm just trying to cut down on the need for WCs to control the nitrates.  

 

I think I am over complicating this...

 

 

Unfortunately I do not. I had a laptop crash about a year ago that had most of my photos on it.

 

Its similar to yours except it had a slice lengthwise in the tube which the screen I used rested in. That seemed to work well for me on distributing the water evenly over the screen and keeping noise down.

 

I wouldn't worry about the mat drying out that fast. If you loose power you need to get it restored via generator or some other means quickly anyhow and if you just shut the pump off for cleaning it will not dry  out that fast.

 

The idea is the same for sure. I have had good success with both ways of doing it. Matter of fact I bought a system here that was set up to have a refugium, so I went that direction on this tank and have chaeto in the regufium.

 

The only item I liked better about the turf scrubber is that I did not have the build up of detritus in the ATS mat as compared to the chaeto in the refugium. Not that it ever created an issue for me, it just released a ton of crap into the tank when I thinned the chaeto ball out. In hindsight this may have been feeding my corals when the material was released into the tank.

 

Both methods are excellent, just a matter of what direction you prefer to go and how much space you have to work with.

 

 

 

Mostly I just want my nitrates to go away.  The chaeto isn't growing fast enough to harvest it.  I don't know why.  The fuge in my other tank grows it like a weed.  I'm going to go swap out some lights.

 

Mine was fed from my return pump, so if it clogged it just sent more water to the tank.

 

I never had a lot of trouble out of it, but I mess with my stuff continuously, so it never really had a lot of chance to clog.

 

 

 

The following is from the above thread:

 

Quotes Of The Day:

Eric Borneman: "What turfs are, essentially, are excellent nitrogen and phosphorus uptake species, with a number of benefits over many other species: faster growing, less invasive, more efficient and less toxic than macroalgae, much more efficient by fast growth than Xenia, and far more effective in most tanks than seagrasses (which require so much more light, sediments, symbiotic microbes, benthic nutrients, and space) or mangroves. The big benefit of turfs as nutrient uptake and export, if needed or desired (by removal of the turfs as they grow), is that they grow faster than macroalgae in biomass, are generally not producers of prolific secondary metabolites (their defense and competition is fast growth), and they are confined to a specific area and are thus not invasive. Even if some get released into the tank, they are very palatable and are a treat for herbivorous fishes and invertebrates. In fact, turfs are havens for copepods, amphipods, ostracods, and polychaetes, favoring their reproduction."

 

Looks good.

This is what it was like before...

 

And this morning...(I turned off the light to the fuge overnight and left on the new light)

If this isn't enough light I quit.  One side has a 90/26w bulb, the other has a 75/18w bulb and a 90/26w shoplight (two 13w 7000k bulbs).  I think I will keep the fuge itself dark and fill it up with rubble for little critters to play in. 

 

I'm getting some very good growth on this.  But, I don't think I have enough flow coming out of the fuge as I need for the size of screen I have.  As the algae is starting to grow I can tell the flow is slowing even more.     

 

I am currently having an issue with a high daytime pH (8.5-8.6) since this was installed.  Evening pH is around 8.0-8.1.  Here is a comparison...any suggestions?
11/30
184 alk
425 calc
1320 mag (dosed)
25-50 nitrate
8.15 (morning) - pH probe
77.4 temp
1.025 salinity

12/3
144 ppm alk
385 ppm calc

1350 ppm mag
8.4 / 8.53 pH (early evening) - API test / pH probe
79.2 temp
1.0255 salinity

 

Why do you question the 50 ppm on the nitrate?  

 

What you say about the PO4 makes a lot of sense.  Hadn't ever thought about that.  I did remove the phosban when I set this up, so that should help restore  the balance.  

 

I already added a deep sand bed (5-6") to the fuge earlier this year.   Adding the finer sand to the sandbed in my 55 fixed the problem I had in there within a month.  Before I only had a medium grade sand in it.  The 125 has fine-med sand and is the size that works for my Bluespots.  The fuge sand is finer.

 

 

 

 

 

Wow, didn't realize you were so picky!  25-50 range is related to when I test.  If I test just after a water change is it closer to 25, if I test just before closer to 50.  If I test somewhere in between, then it is somewhere in between.  When I can't read for sure which of the two pink colors it is, I indicate a range between the two.  I'd say this is close enough and not any reason for you to doubt the number I stated. 

 

I do hope for luck!  I just won the coolest tank   and I'd say that was luck (as well as the fact that I entered the drawing too).  So far, everything else I have tried my luck at hasn't brought down the nitrates.  I'm just trying something else.  I really don't understand why you are so negative about this.  In time, this may work or it might not.  I'm okay with it either way.  The world won't end if it doesn't grow the perfect algae! 

 

 

 

Most of what I have gone off of is in this thread.  SantaMonica quoted Borneman in this thread.  I think SantaMonica has other threads on other forums too.  This one answers your question about how big to make it the pump size needed, etc. 

 

http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/general-reef-aquarium-discussion/35294-mega-powerful-nitrate-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything.html - http://www.reefsanctuary.com/forums/general-reef-aquarium-discussion/35294-mega-powerful-nitrate-phosphate-remover-replaces-skimmer-refugium-everything.html

 

 

So, I guess the answer is I'm not starting over.  Not even close to necessary IMHO.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Yes, it is a RDP Refugium.  It is a 13X13X19" cube made for me by LifeReef that gravity feeds to the sump.  I have an internal MJ pump inside for additional flow.  The light on the fuge is a 96w quad PC retrofit (I experimented with several others before settling on this one).  I only have 4-5 inches of clearance for a light, so the clamp on version didn't fit.  I run the light about 14 hours a night.  

 

If I end up liking the turf scrubber, I will just keep the DSB and top the fuge off with rubble. 

 

I did a small (8 gallon) WC before I tested my water yesterday. 

 

Nitrates 50 ppm

Phosphate 0.03 ppm 

 

 

 

 

 

 

2) 200-300 gph flow rate into the fuge.  I was getting a film on the top of the fuge if I didn't use a powerhead and it would get cyano on the chaeto as well.

 

3) Yes

 

4) All rocks in the display are covered with coraline.  I keep it scraped off of the back glass.  There is some coraline growing on the wall of the fuge as well.  Before the rebuild I didn't have any coraline algae growth because the phosphate levels at the time were inhibiting that growth. 

 

5) Palani Tang, yellow tang, 6 percula clowns, 3 anthias, 2 bluespots, a blenny, and a chromis.  

 

6) Iwaki 30RLT return pump (about 550-600 gph - the max the overflow can handle).   This returns on a split line.  Internally I am also running a Vortech M40 and MJ1200 for additional circulation.  I could take some photos later this evening, but there are some pics in my signature line of the tank and also some more in the writeup for April Tank of the Month. 

 

I don't have any nuisance algae growth.   I do keep a sizeable cleaning crew in the tank.    I think the increased rate of chaeto growth and/or the ATS will deal with the Nitrate problem within a few more weeks.  

 

 

 

I know what you mean with rate of macro growth in a refugium.  There was a time I would harvest once a month just before a wmas meeting and bring 3 1/2 -4 large ziploc bags cramed full of algae.  Now I go for a bout a year before I harvest.  I have changed the original setup many times to try and speed up the growth but nothing has worked.  You should see a plethora of pods and such, which is what I loved about my fuge.

 

I am glad you did this, if I listened to the nay-sayers I would not have had suspended my reef in 2002!

2) A flow rate of 200-300 gph flow rate into the fuge is insufficient. It could be so much more efficient if you tripled or even quadrupled that flow. I assume you can adjust some valves to accomplish this. 
"I was getting a film...and cyano"
Exactly! Increased flow will solve those little nuisances and will vastly increase Macroalgae growth, in turn decreasing N and PO4

 

4)  Nice to see that Coralline growth is good.
"Before the rebuild I didn't have any coraline algae growth because the phosphate levels at the time were inhibiting that growth."
I can assure you that PO4 levels were only a small part of the problem, if any. The new sand also provided minerals immediately accessible for growth. Part of the idea of Old Tank Syndrome is that certain minerals had become depleted in this ~8 yr old setup.

 

5) "Palani Tang, yellow tang, 6 percula clowns, 3 anthias, 2 bluespots, a blenny, and a chromis. " = 15 fish (size unknown)
If I remeber correctly from your writing, this is a 120-130 gal tank right? Here is the list of the 16 fish in our  75 gal tank without a Refugium:
5" Rabbitfish,
4" Yellow Tang,
3" Blue Tang,
2.5" Purple Pseudochromis,
3x 2.5" Blue Damsels,
5 Cardinals,
2 Chromis,
and a pair of mated Maroon Clownfishes having fun in 4 anemones.

 

6) "...(about 550-600 gph - the max the overflow can handle)"   Please pardon me, but that's a real waste of an Iwaki pump which could be circulating almost twice that flow. Please don't be offended but have you considered simply modifying the overflow for an increase in circulation? I know it can be done and would be happy to discuss it further.
"...also running a Vortech M40 and MJ1200." I can see why those were needed.

 

"I don't have any nuisance algae growth.   I do keep a sizable cleaning crew in the tank.    I think the increased rate of chaeto growth and/or the ATS will deal with the Nitrate problem within a few more weeks."
Wonderful, and even without the special ATS, my bet is that doubling or tripling the flow through the Refugium with greater light would have decreased the Nitrates to 20 within a week or two.

One last thing. From the beautiful pics on your website, I'm not sure I would worry too much about a reading of 50ppm Nitrate. It's likely that the test kit is reading high. Things look like they are doing good. Do you notice any change in the appearance of any of the coral when you miss feeding for a few days or when you do a water change?

my 2 cents

 

1) I think my neighbors want me to shut off the lights at night!  They are so bright already!  I need to drill a bunch of holes in the top of the stand all at once and just get hangers that are already in place for when I get the mood for another project.  My hubby gets nervous when I start aiming the drill at the bottom of the tank though. 

 

2) Unfortunately, the design is a gravity feed through a 1" drain and that is all it can handle.  I'm not in the mood to drill another hole, etc.  I'm not sure why it would make a difference if I have already increased the flow with the MJ?  The way it is now, water that is in there has more time to be cleaned before it is dumped back into the sump.  Isn't there some value in that?

 

4) No fair, you skipped a #!  Let me just say that my practices before the crash were much less techy than they are now.  I was quite neglectful.  You would die if you knew how I did WCs and mixed my salt water!  

 

5) I know how big my fishies are, but it is a secret.  Ok, Mr. Palani is B I G (but he's kinda like the big dog that doesn't know he's big - not that that is relevant).  Yellow Tang is good sized too.  3 of the clowns are babies, the rest are typical sizes.

 

6) The pump is not under used.  It is only rated at 510 GPH @ 4 ft Head.  I had a Titanium T2 pump before the crash and when I started upgrading equipment the overflow box was the first thing to go.  I bought a new LifeReef Overflow (a single) that was rated for 700 gph, well over what the T2 was capable of.  After buying a larger pump, I found out that it doesn't operate at that capacity.  I had no intention of replacing the pump, but the T2 had another idea.  I tried three different pumps and this is the right sized pump for system and overflow that I have.  I invested a lot in this overflow, and it will be what I have until my next tank upgrade.

 

Overall my corals are happy (or as Sukie put it - they are "fleshy").  They do ask me to change their water from time to time.   I usually try and change it a day before they ask.  I know, that just sounds funny, but your's talk to you don''t they?  I have been doing larger WCs because they were talking, but I don't like to work that hard.  So, the ATS is just an easy experiment.  I'm not attached to it, but I'd like to see what it does.  I don't expect or necessarily want it to replace everything I already have.

 

Sorry if there are typos in this, I didn't check it real close...