Sudden Death in Fish
Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Specialized Discussion
Forum Name: Fish
Forum Description: This is the place to ask questions about fish.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=24045
Printed Date: May 08 2025 at 1:33am
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Topic: Sudden Death in Fish
Posted By: shroom
Subject: Sudden Death in Fish
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 9:48am
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I have 2 reef tanks (55g and 60g) that I treat the same as far as water, chemical, etc. One is full of fish and doing fine - the other kills them quick.
Starting back in November I had a slow wipe out of all my fish cloudy eyes, white stuff all over and moddled skin. I have since treated with PraziPro, Ruby Reef Rally (which seems to work until I stop using it) and leaving it without fish for over 30 days. Fish continue to die in this tank. I had 4 (clown, Klein's butterfly, 2 chromis). They lasted less than 2 weeks and all died one night.
My water tests out and all my coral are doing SUPERB. Never better... Recently I waited the 30 days to put a couple of chromis in (my canary in the coal mine) and after one day one was dead I quick treated with Rally and the other is still living (2 days now)
Somebody at The Aquarium suggested a UV sterilizer. But then I started reading (big mistake) and there was controversial info out there on it. Not for reefs - kills the bad and the good, etc. etc.
Does anybody have any thoughts on UV Sterilizers or anything else I can try? Or any ideas you might have? Discouraged fish murderer. ------------- shroom |
Replies:
Posted By: cl2ysta1
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 10:11am
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sounds like your fish have had a huge outbreak of ich. UV sterilizers are perfectly fine to run IMO. if you leave it fishless for 6 weeks your tank will be ich free. the problem is if you add a fish in that has ich it will just reintrotuce itself. also. do you runa skimmer on this tank and what kind of wateflow do you have ------------- I <3 Boxers Achilles tang lover |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 10:39am
| OMG am i gonna have same problem? i have 2 clowns and a dragon goby. the 2 clowns have what looks to be some sort of cotton ball thingy's all over there bodies. the one clown had it on his mouth and it must have got rubbed off or something but now it looks like his mouth melted off. the dragon goby is doing fine i cant find any signs of it anywhere except on the clowns but its been a couple weeks now. help? BTW not trying to steal post just want to join with similar problems |
Posted By: shroom
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 10:53am
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Thanks to you both. And yes - better get on the white dots asap. I did treat with kick ich and have had ich before but this sure seemed different. The first time I am guessing that is what - but after that they don't show signs at death of this. Would they die that fast? Also on the not having a host for six weeks theory - can a clam be a host? Or does it have to be a fish? THANKS ------------- shroom |
Posted By: shroom
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 10:59am
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Oh and - waterflow was not as it should be. Just added another Koralia to kick it up. Don't have a skimmer on either tank and have never had problems. Nitrates, ammonia and phosphates zero. ------------- shroom |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 11:07am
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If I was going to let a tank sit to kill off the ick i would let it sit for 3 months. That being said Ick is in every tank. The fishes health is what determines if it gets it or not. I would say that there is something out of whack in the tank that has multiple outbreaks. Water parameters (that we test)9 may be fine but there still can be issues related to temp flux, Crap leaching out of the rock work, UV issues from lights, Problems with the filtration system, stray electricity, etc etc etc. All of these can stress the fish out and open them up to an ick infestation.
UV is great in my opinion. I run it on both of my big systems and have been playing with ozone. Both of these will kill the ick bug. Controversy? As much as 2 people can have differing opinions.
What is going on in your system can be completely different than what is going on in someone else's. It might not be ick at all but a fungi infection. Treated with antibiotics in a quarantine tank can clear it up. Again UV can be of a great help but not a cure all.
Fishman, Yours is a fungus for sure. Left untreated it will kill your fish.
Couple of natural treatments are, garlic, cleaner shrimp and neon gobies. (gobies will catch ick as well if the underlying problem isn't found and fixed. ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: shroom
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 11:09am
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Thanks. I appreciate the thoughtful advice. ------------- shroom |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 12:09pm
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What Dion said.
fishman90g, one of my clowns looked like this so I meth. blue fresh water dipped and returned him to the tank and he has not shown signs of it for months. Just make sure the ph and temp. are the same as the tank if you are going to fresh water dip. Clowns seem to handle fresh water dips very well, they can stay in up to 15 minutes.
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Posted By: cl2ysta1
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 12:24pm
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yes it definetly could be a fungal infection also. either way a meth. blue dip before being added to the tank is definetly helpful ------------- I <3 Boxers Achilles tang lover |
Posted By: jdmckell
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 1:59pm
| I had a clown that had the white cotton ball thing starting to take over as well. I was told it wasn't ich because the clown lived with it for weeks. The fish didn't act different and kept eating and swimming around great. Eventually the spots just went away and now the clown in healthy. I could be wrong but I swear the spots were GONE like 2 days after adding a cleaner shrimp. |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:16pm
| what kind of cleaner shrimp should i get? a peppermint? and as far as the blue dip method goes, how in the world am i supposed to get them both out without first pulling all the rock out? also as far as a quarantine tank goes....the only thing i have close to that is a blue tub i used to cure live rock until a powerhead went astray and shot out almost all the water. all the rubble and sand hand been covered with water but has not been running for almost a month and i just got it started back up yesterday i have'nt had a chance to check parameters on it yet but am thinking of seeding it with some sand out of my display? would that work? i know they are very hardy, the clownfish that is but with all this going on could they ossibly survive? i dont want to lose either of them because they immediately moved into the BTA after introduction |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:17pm
| thank you shroom for letting me share with you i hope we both have very similar problems going on right now. if not i will start my own and let everyone advise you accordingly |
Posted By: jonafriendj
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:17pm
You'd have to get a cleaner shrimp if you are hoping for a shrimp to clean it up  ------------- Pleasant Grove |
Posted By: shroom
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:24pm
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No worries fishman! It's all good info. post away ------------- shroom |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:28pm
| how many cleaners should i get? does it depend on tank size or # of fish? they are'nt flippin cheap i have store credit at aquatica but dang dude $20/shrimp pretty spendy |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:32pm
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For cleaner shrimp I would say the skunk are best. They are 5 times as costly but worth it. Get two of them and they will feed your tank with babies.
It was a pain to get my clown out, I chased it around the tank for about 45 minutes before I got it. You might try to wait until lights out and then use a spot light to stun it and net it. Sometimes that works.
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Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:38pm
| oh yeah i heard about that ive never seen it done but Bbeck4x4told me he had to do it to get a clown out of his display a while back. so what do i do after i get him out drop him in a bucket of ro water? how do i get the ph up to 8.2? i think it is at around 7 or so until i add salt mix to it. and how long do i leave him in there? also what about shrooms tank? that is weird that it stays in there that long without a host no? could it be hosting something else like a hermit or snail? maybe a clam like he said? |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 2:52pm
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You need a buffer for the RO water. I buffer my top off water. When I want to do a fresh water dip I just put some of my top off water in a bowl and let the bowl float to get to temp.
shroom's problem is a bit different. shroom should use a fresh water dip as well but maybe just running that system without fish for 3 months would be best.
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Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 3:05pm
| if it is a fungal infection wouldnt it affect all my fish? why only the clowns? what type of buffer should i use? i have success calk is that a good buffer? |
Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 5:27pm
| I use Seachem ph buffer. It is different then their alk additive. I don't know what success calk is. |
Posted By: superman1981
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 5:48pm
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The question was asked about the type of cleaner shrimp to get. In response, Peppermint shrimp are not cleaners. Skunk cleaners are great, or fire shrimp (although some people will debate this, I have two and they clean my fish all the time).... Anyway, thats my 2 cents. Fire shrimp are pricey, they're usually $25-$30, but look cooler than skunks in my opinion. ------------- Sure you are, you are Crappy Reef Club Member #1 -Chk4tix 6 gal nanocube 65 gal http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78639&title=tims-65-gallon-build" rel="nofollow - build thread |
Posted By: bbeck4x4
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 6:28pm
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fishman what are you using to measure your ph? the test kits are not terribly accurate. to raise your ph, open your windows and air out the house,( my windows are open today, this house is very airtight and that will increase co2 that tends to lower my ph) also you can point a powerhead at the surface of the water (but just enough to make it roll) that will also help raise the ph. to start off with, one cleaner shrimp is enough. |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 7:32pm
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that was my ro water test for ph. my tank ph is stable at 8.2. i wish i didnt have to use those blasted test kits but its gonna be a while before i can afford a neptune. which by the way blew me away checking yours out |
Posted By: bbeck4x4
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 8:06pm
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ok, that's good. what are you using for a skimmer I don't remember, the other thing that can help is to make sure that you are doing a 5 gal water change once a week. |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 9:37pm
| i do 20G water changes every other week until the i get as much overfeeding nutrients and the algae under control which BTW is almost there the glass was barely faded after about 4-5 days of not feeding or cleaning so i think this weekend will be the last big water change then im gonna step it down to bi-weekly 10G water changes. i have the asm G2 skimmer i have to clear it once a week. |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 9:38pm
| hey shroom, have you taken any of the advise yet? im really curious to see how your tanks health is gonna pan out after all this. |
Posted By: bbeck4x4
Date Posted: February 27 2008 at 9:56pm
when you get ready to mesh mod that skimmer let me know, I'll give you a hand, I had a orp of 399 this morning. |
fishman90G wrote:Posted By: MadReefer
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 12:29am
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Peppermint shrimp are technically cleaner shrimp, from the Caribbean. But yes they don't behave like good cleaners in aquariums much. You can get skunk cleaners from the Atlantic also, and I've read that they do not clean much. But the skunks from the Pacific will do a good job, sometimes. Correct me if I'm wrong, just what I've read.
My skunk cleaners don't clean the fish much, but this may be because I over feed them. But I have seen them clean fish in the past and they jump at the fish from time to time. I don't think it is something I would count on. I think its cool though.
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Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 10:11am
| im still a little leary of the idea of mesh modding. does'nt that take away the volume of water running through the skimmer? im also scared because i have enough microbubbles making it into the tank as it is. its in the sump before my foam block and return pump. unfortunately due to the height and noise of my rio20hf i have to keep the water about an inch or two above the baffle. the only way to cure this problem is either sell the sump and mod a 29G or buy a small sheet of acrylic and mod the baffle higher. |
Posted By: Dion Richins
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 10:16am
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I modded my g3 and went from cleaning it every 3 days to almost daily. Way awesome upgrade. ------------- http://www.customaquariumfurniture.com" rel="nofollow - Bad "censored" Cabinets Best quality in the valley! He is one sexy bald guy, even with out a finger!(MAC) |
Posted By: fishman90G
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 10:41am
| it doesnt take too much out? btw whats up dion, did you see the post on the 55G suspended reef that boogey wants to attempt? i gotta tell you im a little excited and gitty inside to see what it looks like when he is done. i hope he posts pics |
Posted By: bbeck4x4
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 2:07pm
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microbubble problems are from the water traveling through the sump to fast. you can add baffles to increase the effective distance that the water has to travel, decrease the water flow, or get a larger sump. in the skimmer you need the correct amount of water and air, although it is slightly better to be on the more air side, than the more water side. I don't think that it is possible to take to much out of the water. |
Posted By: coche
Date Posted: February 28 2008 at 10:41pm
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I would run uv and ozone the both help out. if you can only run one i would use ozone because it increases the effectiveness of the skimmer,aids water clarity, will still kill the parasites. just my two cents. i purchased a gen-x ozonizer of ebay for $80 and it worked great for 2 years until i caused water to go into it. ------------- Justin Carr-Spanish Fork 60G cube LED |