Print Page | Close Window

overflow quieting suggestions

Printed From: Utah Reefs
Category: Main
Forum Name: General Discussion
Forum Description: Posts that don't fit in any of the other categories.
URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=79264
Printed Date: July 18 2018 at 9:55am


Topic: overflow quieting suggestions
Posted By: SFReef
Subject: overflow quieting suggestions
Date Posted: February 27 2016 at 10:20pm

What are ways that people use to quiet their overflows? Mine either sounds like a waterfall or it gurgles. I know why it is doing this but now I am wondering how to fix it. I have read a lot of different ways online but am wondering what will work for me. Any suggestions?

Thank you in advance.




Replies:
Posted By: kmtfishchannel
Date Posted: February 27 2016 at 10:23pm
Mine was making a loud sucking sound and I took a short piece of PVC and put it in the drain down in my filter sock (this will depend of you're set up) below the water surface and it made a huge difference for me!

-------------
Search #shopreeftank in Facebook


Posted By: christhjesus
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 12:43am
The most effective way I found is to have a gate valve on the return pump and on the overflow.


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 3:47am
Placing a blockage in the end of the drain pipe is the same principle as a gate valve. If a snail goes down the drain it can cause the tank to overflow. Unhappy

My preferred drain is very quiet and fail safe. I call it the Modified Durso. I'd be happy to describe and show pics upon request. Smile

You said, "...wondering what will work for me." I like that stateent. If you would like my best answer, please post a pic of the overflow.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: SFReef
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 6:38am

I would like to see pics and have a description of any method out there as I am trying to decide what will be best for me. I didn't give this part much thought and was told to just put an elbow up top out of the bulkhead and run tubing or pvc from there to the sump. So my overflow currently is a little too uncomplicated and I now need to fix it. I have looked at a few options but am trying to decide what will be best for me.

Thanks



Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 7:38am
If you use a gate valve on the overflow imo you need to make sure you have an emergency overflow, just in case the main drain gets blocked. This is commonly called a modified Durso which enable you to run a full siphon which is silent as there is no air entering the overflow. If you only have two bulkheads then you will need to run your return another way as the second bulkhead would become your emergency overflow.

-------------
90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 12:32pm

Originally posted by Reefer4Ever Reefer4Ever wrote:

This is commonly called a modified Durso .
That is incorrect. What Reefer4Ever described and the only method being discussed so far in this thread is the Bean Herbie method. <Edit> the complicated Bean method requires more complicated plumbing that I'd rather not bother with. Smile

I asked to see a pic because first I need to know the space of the overflow/drain area. Only by knowing that, plus a few more things, can I suggest the best solution.

The Modified Durso is a unique, original design, conceived by me after seeing hundreds of overflows and trying dozens of overflow designs over my 20+ years in this hobby. The Modified Durso operates on the same principles as the original brilliantly conceived Durso Drain, but takes half the space and in many cases is quieter than the original Durso. It's also just as simple to make as the original Durso. I have posted pics of it here before, but I hesitate to reveal it again because unless it's seen in action, because it's so simple, because I want no money for it, it's usually not appreciated.

SFReef, I seem to recall that we have met, right? Have you been to my place? 

Aloha,

Mark  Hug



-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: jdubb925
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 12:41pm
Clearly not my thread but I am very interested in Mark' Modified Durso design

-------------
Justin W.



Posted By: christhjesus
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 1:36pm

My DT will not overflow.  I designed the sump so the pump will run out of water before the tank will overflow.  

But I guess my sump is different than the OP so what I have done might not be the best option. 



Posted By: christhjesus
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 1:43pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

I have posted pics of it here before, but I hesitate to reveal it again because unless it's seen in action, because it's so simple, because I want no money for it, it's usually not appreciated.

SFReef, I seem to recall that we have met, right? Have you been to my place? 

Aloha,

Mark  Hug

I have seen Marks creation, it is perfectly silent yet simple.



Posted By: SFReef
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 3:31pm

Thank you to everyone for this discussion. I would love to continue talking about this as well if anyone has any more ideas.

Mark, I have been to your place and I think you were showing me your overflow but I didn't understand it at the time and don't think I could have without having experienced an overflow before. Now that I have, I vaguely remember what your overflow looks like. I can't get up there anytime soon, though. Could you send me pictures and a description? I am sure it will make more sense now that I am seeing what I am seeing.

Thanks again.



Posted By: Reefer4Ever
Date Posted: February 28 2016 at 3:37pm
...

-------------
90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: February 29 2016 at 11:12am
Okay, before I wrote up this info all over again, I decided to go looking for what's already been said. I wanted to provide information and perhaps spawn other ideas for you. I love that we can search this forum. Heart
Check out these threads:
Noisy drainage -  http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43059&KW=modified+durso&PID=373966&title=noisy-drainage#373966" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=43059
Plumbing Question -  http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66821" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=66821

I'll add pics of my current Modified Durso as soon as I can, then for future reference I'll add this thread to the Reefkeeping Tips. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: 1stupidpunk
Date Posted: February 29 2016 at 11:47am

More food for thought. I run a bean animal style drain and I have noticed that algae builds up between the wall of the plastic and the little teeth ... slot... things... on the factory overflow, and when that happens instead of a nice even waterfall cascading into the overflow its more of a super soaker spray and creates a noticeable gurgle.



Posted By: kevski
Date Posted: March 01 2016 at 2:06pm
I just recently set up my 100 g. Tank and started with dual Durso's but after several days of unbearable gurgling down the Durso pipe and the 4+" waterfall noise over the overflow to the Durso inlet I gave up and went with the Herbie design. Ahhhhhh.... Silence (once I got the gate valve dialed in). Love it!!!

-------------
100 G Reef / AI Hydra 52 HD


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 02 2016 at 7:17am
That tweaking of the Gate Valve is the major difficulty with the Herbie design. It may often require monitoring, tweaking and as I said in my first post above, if a Snail, dead fish or piece of crud goes down the Herbie drain it can obstruct the gate valve opening and if an ATO is present, can cause the display tank to flood. Angry

There is also a need, once the Herbie is running, to turn off the return pump to see if all the water that backed up in the overflow can be contained in the Sump/Refugium. I cannot overemphasize the importance of testing the Herbie Drain by turning off the return pump. If it looks like the sump is going to overflow, quickly turn the return pump back on and go back to the drawing board. Confused

I have also seen the difficulty Kevski mentioned regarding the traditional Durso. It can be adjusted to run quiet. The variables are this:

1. Adjust the height of the Durso in the overflow to avoid a waterfall effect
2. Adjust the size of the breather hole in the cap of the Durso to allow just the right amount of air
3. Adjust the flow of the return pump to match the capacity of the Durso
4. There is one more...can't think of it, I'll add it later when I remember Embarrassed

Does anyone here use or want to talk about the complicated Bean method and other designs? Geek

Aloha,
Mark  Hug


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: SFReef
Date Posted: March 02 2016 at 7:39am
I was told to put a PVC tee pipe on the back of the tank to help it quiet down so I did that but am not sure what to do now.  It quieted it down a good amount but it sounds like it is draining all the time now (which it is).  I saw somewhere where I can put a cap on and drill a hole in the cap with airline tubing coming from the cap.  Does that work?  Does the modified durso only work if put over where the water overflows into the PVC pipe?  I don't think that is an option unfortunately.  Any other ideas of what I can do by any chance?

Thank you all for your help and ideas.


Posted By: kevski
Date Posted: March 02 2016 at 8:45am
Thats the reason for the emergency drain. So if something does get caught in the siphon drain it can still flow down into the sump. Plus I have a bulkhead screen on the siphon drain to prevent snails, etc from getting in there and a 1/4" plexiglass cover over the overflow so the only thing that could get into the overflow would be of the size that can fit between the overflow teeth. As for the sump, I have a 40 g. capacity that runs with 20 g so I have plenty of extra capacity for the 2.5 gal overflow volume. Granted I have done a small amount of tweaking on the gate valve but only a few times and then it's only to quiet a small trickle sound... Which is still quieter than the Durso running optimally. The Herbie is dead silent.

-------------
100 G Reef / AI Hydra 52 HD


Posted By: SFReef
Date Posted: March 03 2016 at 8:12am

I am trying to load pictures on here as requested but not having luck. If someone can help me figure out how to do that I will certainly be happy to attach those. The overflow is drilled on the back wall of the tank a few inches from the top and a bulkhead is on that hole. I then have a pvc elbow screwed into the bulkhead inside the tank. On top of the elbow is a cone shaped filter type thing.

On the back of the tank I had another elbow screwed into the bulkhead and the clear tubing was run directly to the sump underneath. It sounded like a waterfall and was very loud unless the tubing was draining directly into the sump and not allowing the water to fall into the sump. When I put it directly into the sump there was no air getting into the tube, though, so it sounded like a toilet flushing whenever it needed the air in for flow.

So I was told to try putting a pvc tee on the back of the tank. This allowed me to submerse the end of the tubing, which cuts out a lot of noise, but now it sounds like it is draining nonstop instead. While this is not as loud as before, it is still quite noisy. Any ideas on what to do from here?

Thank you. 




Posted By: Krazie4Acans
Date Posted: March 03 2016 at 9:20am
This link will help with uploading pictures.

http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78772" rel="nofollow - http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=78772


-------------
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=63568&title=krazies-nano-paradise" rel="nofollow - Tank Thread:


Posted By: Holyzion
Date Posted: March 03 2016 at 10:59am
So i have ran a few different drain methods in my few years of reefing and i have to say Herbie drain is by far my favorite and it is whisper quite, it was actually unnerving to hear no water flow at all when i first started my tank. 

It took me a 5 minutes to adjust the gate valve to get the flow just right in my case. I also have a cover that guards my main drain from being clogged. I run a DC return pump so i use the feed button which shuts my pump off for 15 minutes, I have never had an issue with it overflowing the sump. I have also tested by plugging my main drain, the back up drain more than handled all of the water flow from my return pump. 

Each person here will have different success with different methods and they will stick with what works for them and swear by it. In the end test every solution you have available to you and stick with what works the best for your tank since every tank is different.

Best of luck.



-------------
74G Mixed Reef
3G Picotope


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 03 2016 at 5:38pm
Originally posted by SFReef SFReef wrote:

I saw somewhere where I can put a cap on and drill a hole in the cap with airline tubing coming from the cap.
Yes, the cap (in this case just use a PVC Plug in the Tee) with a small hole is what silences it. It works like a car muffler. Start with a small hole like 1/8" and if that doesn't work, drill it 1/4". It's the size of the hole that matters. The airline tube is unnecessary and sometimes even gives a noise of it's own. 

Actually I'll bet the modified Durso would work, there are easy design mods to make it work in different situations, but if this T with a cap does the job, no need to go any further. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
The Herbie Drain is sensitive to changes in return water flow and changes in sump water level, whereas the quiet operation of the Durso and Modified Durso is unaffected by those variations.


-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: March 09 2016 at 6:11pm
Okay, I have some pics for y'all. You've seen, if you looked at the link posted earlier, the Modified Durso with the stand pipe where prongs are cut to stick up and hold the cap in position. Here is another variation.


Water rolls down a stand pipe; a 1" Class 200 PVC which extends 1/4" into the 2" ABS Cap above.
A 1.5" ABS Cap could have been used to conserve space if required. Class 200 PVC Pipe has a larger inside diameter which allows more water flow.

The Cap was drilled on each side and secured with a Zip Tie around the center brace. In case you're wondering, the entire tank frame was painted white to match the white stand.



The holes for the Zip Tie did not let enough air through so a separate hole was drilled in one side and then another hole on the other side was drilled to let enough air into the Cap to make the drain absolutely silent.


Initially I was dismayed by the fact that this used 30 gal breeder tank had been drilled in the bottom back center, straight below the brace, but I relaxed when I realized this allowed the cap to be positioned perfectly. Big smile



-------------
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member


Posted By: Transam
Date Posted: February 03 2017 at 9:07am
I will post a few pics when I get home. I use the "herbie" style over flow and use a gate valve. Using a gate valve makes the adjustment super easy if you used a normal ball valve it may be tough to adjust I can imagine. Mine has been running for over a year with no issues at all and no adjustments past the initial one. Fellow reefers come over and comment on how quiet my take is compared to theirs using other over flow methods.

-------------
Ogden

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."

Groucho Marx


Posted By: kevski
Date Posted: February 03 2017 at 10:16am
That has been my experience also with my herbie drain setup, people comment all the time how quiet it is... SILENT!

-------------
100 G Reef / AI Hydra 52 HD


Posted By: kevin.st
Date Posted: February 03 2017 at 10:33am
Herbie with a gate valve.  Done.


Posted By: Transam
Date Posted: February 03 2017 at 10:35am
^^^ what he said 😃

-------------
Ogden

"Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others."

Groucho Marx



Print Page | Close Window