Carbon/Vodka liquid/pellets discussion
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URL: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=42375
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Topic: Carbon/Vodka liquid/pellets discussion
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Subject: Carbon/Vodka liquid/pellets discussion
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:52am
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Has anyone locally used other forms of carbon or sugar to enhance
filtration? I'm really interested in the results. Anyone local currently using carbon/sugars to enhance filtration, please speak up and tell us the differences before and after. ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
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Replies:
Posted By: Jasonincuritiba
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 3:02pm
| I dose vodka on my 29g Biocube. It works great because I have a mandarin that I feed PE Mysis daily. I also like to feed all my LPS which makes a large bio load. I am currently dosing about .7 ml a day depending on how the tank looks. If you dose to much you get these bacteria mucus strands that will clog filters. I have tried Zeovit in the past but it is no longer in my budget. |
Posted By: Crazy Tarzan
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 3:09pm
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I'm behind the times, how does vodka dosing help (what process does it improve, how do corals like it)? Pics of the 29? I have the same tank, and would love to see what your looks like. ------------- Was that in there yesterday? Casper--WY windier than ? Down to a 20, soon to double or nothing |
Posted By: Chris Scott
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 3:22pm
doesn't it get the fish drunk?  ------------- 55g Bowfront Corner Reef |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 4:33pm
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There are many different kinds of pellets I will be using ecobak by warner marine.
From what I have read they will:
Take nitrates to zero. (So you can have a larger bioload)
Take po4 to zero. (Will eliminate the need of macro algae)
Only things that are needed is a reactor and a Good skimmer.
Return from the reactor needs to go to skimmer compartment.
Very clear water
I have heard of other pellets and vodka that get blooms
I'm no expert for sure but I will have them friday and will be running them by monday
If you goto R2R Jon warner is online alot and can explain his product ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Adam Blundell
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:33pm
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I've used the beads from marineland. Although I think you'd need to use lots of them, and for several weeks before you'd really see any results. There is a really experienced hobbyist doing this and I know that Will has considered bringing him in as a speaker. Adam ------------- Come to a meeting, they�re fun! |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 7:54pm
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I would really like to have Jon warner as a speaker. He has developed the new ecobak pellets. Which are cutting edge and alot of his other products are used by many people.
Who are the speakers for the pro and cons meeting?
Yes they take 3-4 weeks to get results but what I have read they do work. ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: July 20 2010 at 9:00pm
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I have been dosing my tank with Vodka since I set it up in my old basement to cure the sand and rock. That was about 4 months ago or so. I have no idea how much I dose. I put in about 10-12 drops for my tank although I think that was a bit much as I couldn't get the diatoms to go away. I stopped dosing for one week and the diatoms started disappearing. Now I am slowly ramping it back up by starting with 3 drops a day. Vodka or any other carbon source is meant to feed bacteria that eat up nitrogen compounds and phosphates. The bacteria strands are then large enough to be skimmed out by your skimmer. If you don't have a good skimmer, I HIGHLY recommend staying away from any carbon dosing. I am pretty sure it will harm your tank more than help. A good skimmer also oxygenates the water. A bacterial bloom can deplete the tank's oxygen pretty quickly. Colors are much improved when dosing vodka IMO. They do become a little more pastel but I like that look. I hate the old "keep things natural" line in this hobby. Our little boxes of water are FAR from natural. They can never be "natural." We just can't replicate trillions of gallons and what the ocean can do. Therefore I use technology where I can to help my tank. I do believe that the ocean uses a carbon source of some kind and that it too skims. Think of all the thousands and thousands of miles of coastline where the water bubbles and skims out the junk. Sorry I am off topic... Go slow and monitor the tank. People say that you MUST watch phosphates and nitrates to know your dosing but I think a skilled aquarist can tell if they are adding too much. Corals tell you what is going on much better than any test kit. The test kit will just help you know how far things are off. |
Posted By: Mark Peterson
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 10:15am
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Before the notoriety of using Vodka, some hobbyists used ordinary sugars(carbon molecules). What does Vodka have in it that is feeding the bacteria? Are the results from carbon pellets any different than Vodka, sugar, etc.? I notice that "RF Fuel" is designed for this very same purpose. How about some feedback from people using this. Some before and after comparisons would be nice. A followup question to all of this is how necessary is it to have Nitrates and Phosphates at zero. What are the levels on the reefs and how does that translate to optimum conditions in our tanks? ------------- Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks: www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
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Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 10:49am
Vodka is a carbon source just like sugars and vinegar. The classic combo of vodka, sugar and vinegar is being used widely in the hobby. Theories are that each carbon source may feed a different bacteria. That is why you will also see a lot of people dosing a bacteria source as well. Probidio, Zeovit and MicroBacter7 are all commonly used bacteria sources to diversify the bacteria in the tank. From my understanding the pellets are just a solid version of vodka. The bacteria consumes the pellets and releases carbon into the tank. I use a product called Fuel made by Aquavitro. Not sure if that is what you are talking about. Fuel is nothing more than amino acids and vitamins for the tank. I have used it for about the last 8 months or so and love it. I noticed a huge increase in growth and my corals extend their polyps even more and look really good. To my knowledge you will find very little, if any, nitrate and phosphate on a reef. They are consumed by the algae and corals and are constantly being washed away. I think having nitrates below 5 and phosphates at 0 is extremely important. Well that is if you want colorful corals. I say colorful meaning extremely bright and gorgeous. I am different than most hobbyists I guess. I am not in this hobby to look at brown corals and algae all over my tank. I want my tank clean and popping with color. I don't believe people when they say that corals are brown in nature. I have watched way too many shows that show reefs popping with every color under the rainbow. Not a huge reef of terds. Vodka/carbon source dosing is just one way to lower nutrients in the tank. In my experience it works very well. I believe that unless your refugium is larger than the display tank, it won't do near the job that a couple drops of vodka and a good skimmer will do. Just my experience in this hobby. I have tried refugiums in the past and wasn't overly thrilled with my success. Since setting up my new tank and using the methods I have described, my tanks have never looked better. |
Mark Peterson wrote:Posted By: rwccomptech
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:10pm
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Is vodka dosing used with real vodka? >.> like umm, jager?
------------- Ron 20g 60x turnover 30" current pc fixture |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:26pm
Jager isn't a vodka. It's a flavored liquor (licorice basically). ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: rwccomptech
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:35pm
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Jager has vodka in it lo, besides i like rumm better, get me some captain morgan woot
------------- Ron 20g 60x turnover 30" current pc fixture |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:38pm
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Maybe licorice & vodka (Jager) will turn out to be the new garlic oil. ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: rwccomptech
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:49pm
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lets start a petition for jager being the new garlic oild
------------- Ron 20g 60x turnover 30" current pc fixture |
Posted By: Shayne
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 1:59pm
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I'll second that. The only problem would be the "sampling" issue. "A little for the fish. A little for me. A little more for me. A little more for me. Ok... what was I doing?" ------------- 21G Reefer Nano |
Posted By: rwccomptech
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 2:09pm
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well you have to accout the amount of blood you have in your alcohol stream now.
------------- Ron 20g 60x turnover 30" current pc fixture |
Posted By: Chris Scott
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 4:42pm
When you mention a couple of drops, how much do you dose and how often? Can you just put it right in the display tank? Thanks, ------------- 55g Bowfront Corner Reef |
Posted By: Ryan Thompson
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 4:49pm
I literally get my pipette and put 3 drops in the tank. It is maybe .25mL or so. I dose every day and I put mine in the sump. |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 5:22pm
Did somebody call me? lol ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 5:27pm
I don't think that's entirely true, but I do agree with the idea that the skimmer does much more filtration than a typical refugium. On my tank I don't dose vodka, but have a very oversized skimmer and about a 40 gallon refugium w/ dsb and tons of macro. My nitrates are at 5ppm, and phosphates are at 0. The vodka method has intrigued me since I got serious in reef keeping. Maybe I'll get brave and try it someday. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |
Posted By: bugzme
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 6:17pm
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Steve do you run GFO? ------------- Jeff 125 tank 50 gallon sump T-5 lighting Rum drinker, Carbon User I KNOW ROCKS THAT ARE YOUNGER THEN ME!! I AM A Realist! I write what I think!! |
Posted By: BobC63
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 6:57pm
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Here's how I use vodka: 1) Pour in a glass
2) Add in one of the following:
a) Cranberry Juice
b) Orange Juice
c) 'Tom Collins' sour mix
3) Stir briskly
4) Enjoy - while sitting in front of my plenumed tanks that already have 0 nitrates - 24/7/365 - without any of this dosing "doubletalk nonsense"...
(OK, the "doubletalk nonsense" part was just to stir up Ryan
)Actually, I do think the 'science' of carbon dosing is pretty cool - but I personally wouldn't be able to rely on a method that requires daily attention (vodka dosing), because I would forget to do it every day... and the pellet idea - again, cool sounding - well, why would I trade in my method of nitrate elimination (plenums) that has an already low initial cost - and zero ongoing cost and literally zero maintenance - for a method that requires a higher intial financial cost (buying pellets and the reactor) and also both ongoing regular maintenance and ongoing cost (buying more pellets and replacing them on a regular basis)?
------------- - My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) - * Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 * |
Posted By: rwccomptech
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 10:33pm
------------- Ron 20g 60x turnover 30" current pc fixture |
Posted By: CapnMorgan
Date Posted: July 22 2010 at 11:09pm
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Jeff- I do run AC but no GFO, my macro sucks it up, and what little is left is taken out with water changes. I do overskim quite a bit, and I'm sure that it greatly contributes to the lack of excess nutrients. I feed 2x daily mysis, brine, cyclopeze, oyster eggs, krill and emerald entree in fairly good sized portions (I have some large fish). Luckily between the huge skimmer, 4" oolitic sandbed in the display and larger refugium, for the most part the tank is able to compensate for the larger bioload. Also as soon as my Zero Edge is finished it will be plumbed into the system. It will be housing my Frogfish, some corals, and a half-dozen or so Mangroves which will even further reduce my nitrates. ------------- Steve http://utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=40637&PID=356246" rel="nofollow - My Old 180G Mixed Reef Currently: 120G Wavefront Mixed 29G Seahorse & Softies Running ReefAngel Plus x2 435-8 |