Plumbing a Sump

I really like the Herbie Overflow but unfortunately most stock tanks don't come with enough holes drilled to pull it off very well. You solution of using one overflow for supplying the sump and one for returns will probably work but you will be sacrificing surface skimming on which is one of the benefits of dual overflows. Additionally one overflow will be full of water that is basically not circulating but a stagnant place in the tank. One other option depending on your location and the type of stand, canopy you are using would be to run the returns up and over the back side of the tank. This would allow you to use both down tubes for the Herbie. If you have a canopy over the tank it will be invisible to the display but if you are running an open top you would see the pipes coming over the back rim.

Another option would be to have the back glass drilled for the returns. There are tons of options so think it through before you start.

As for Threaded VS Slip pipe I usually use slip with clear PVC glue. If you clean the pipe well you don't need to prime the pipe with purple primer because there is very little pressure on the pipes. Threaded pipe fittings are good for inside the overflow box so you can easily disassemble the down tubes for service without taking apart the bulkhead fittings.

Stay away from check valves. They are prone to failure and have been the cause of many a flood. A well designed plumbing system shouldn't need any check valves as the sump should be able to absorb all the extra water when the pumps are stopped. If there is more water in the system than the sump can handle you will have a flood at some point if you rely on check valves to keep water in the tank.

There are several other methods of keeping the tank silent. I also like the Hoffer Gurgle Buster for example. The benefit to the Herbie method is redundant drain lines as an added protection against flooding. This isn't completely necessary but in the absence of a backup drain you should frequently inspect the drains for blockage by debris, snails ans what not.

The one thing I don't like about the Herbie method is putting a valve on the drain line and adjusting for silence. It's OK when you have a redundant drain but I would never block the drain in any way without a backup drain should the valve become blocked.

I would use the same size pipe as the bulkhead fitting. If 2 drain lines come together make sure they empty into a line that is big enough to handle the flow of both drains (A larger diameter pipe than the drains).

Splitting off of the return can be done to supply water to other equipment like Media Reactors and such without having to purchase a separate pump. Generally you want all the flow in the display as you can get so it's not necessary unless you have an alternate use for the water. If you think you may have a use for this pressurized water in the future plumb it in with a gate valve and you can easily add to your system later.

Looking forward to seeing your build. These projects are the most fun part of the hobby for me. Almost as soon as I finish a project I'm looking for another one LOL. You're doing the right thing by asking questions before starting so ask away, think it through and most of all have fun building the tank.

Hi-

We have two overflows with 2 holes each, both at 1.75 in diameter (the tank came with two bulkheads, those are at 1.25 or 1.5 I believe, the pipe in the bulkhead in the overflow was 1", it all seemed to fit very well).  I think we were going to have one side be the drain and the other the return.  Then use some loc-line on the return to spread the flow around. 

I bought plenty of power heads so it will get great flow in the tank, not concerned about using the pump.  I like the tip about using excess return pump pressure for other items.  We have reactors and eventually a UV going in so that would be great to use.  Great tip. 

I won 2 pumps at the reef fest (lucky me), one was in the 976 gph range (don't know the brand) and the other was in the high 400's low 500's.  I know they need to be the same to work right, I would like to use both, one as the main return and one as the independent emergency one, will have to see what happens.  If not I can match it.  I think the 976 should work well for getting the water up, we had the stand built a bit higher (I think it is 44").  You do have me thinking now about the pressure a 1" can handle if we went herbie route, I didn't consider that to be an issue before hand. 

We will be using gate and ball valves as protection, convenience and tuning.

Most likely will go sch 40 or 80, but will make that decision when ordering.

We do not have a canopy on this tank, thought about having the returns over the back, but the wife isn't really fond of that look right now. 

Your input has been fantastic, I appreciate the time and effort for your responses.

We are going to finish drawing up our plumbing design and I will start our build thread with some pictures as I am sure seeing visually our tank and our equipment will help. 

Thanks again!!!

rufessor wrote: ...I played a very long time with my Durso and for noise, it actually seems like the biggest concern with the Durso is the bubble noise in the sump, so I built a nice silencer (kinda a reverse durso) in my sump and the whole thing is nearly silent.  at 10 pm with the lights down and the kids in bed, I can sit right next to it and read or watch TV quietly, I can hear that its on, but its quiet.  My stand originally had an open back, DO NOT DO THIS, you need a fully enclosed stand if you want it quiet.  Mine has been nicely modified.

Awesome to read that your added design on the drain exit quieted the Durso that much.

I agree with making larger pipe, like 1.5" or even 2" pipe for the drain standpipe and lower plumbing, bushing it down to go through the bulkhead, as we would say in the sprinkler business, Even if it has to go through a 1" bulkhead, the larger flow of water will get pushed faster through the short narrow bulkhead than if it was running down a 1" standpipe. The way i look at it, whenever larger pipe can be used it should be to ensure easier flow of water.

Pipe diameter and wall thickness is a big deal.
Here is a comparison:
- A 2" pipe has a cross sectional area of about 3.14 square inches. This allows roughly 4 times more water to flow through a 2" pipe than a 1" pipe which has a cross sectional area of about 0.785 square inches
- A 1.5" pipe has a cross sectional area of about 1.77 square inches. This means roughly 2.25 times more water can flow through a 1.5 " pipe than a 1" pipe.
- The difference in inside diameter between 1" Schedule 40 and 1" Class 200 PVC is about 0.14". This means that 1" Class 200 pipe (0.785 square inches) can handle 1.35 times more water than 1" Schedule 40 pipe (0.580 square inches).

Oh, and the water flows very fast down a straight 1" pipe in the Herbie style. It's just like a siphon. If it wasn't draining water from inside the overflow and without a valve to throttle it down, it would completely drain a 100 gal tank in less than a minute. A Gate Valve is almost a necessity because it's extremely difficult to make a fine adjustment to a PVC Ball Valve


Edited by Mark Peterson - January 05 2012 at 10:23pm

You know how the internet has Wifi. 

You are saying that the pump you plan to use for the Return is rated for 976 gph? Is that at 5 feet of head pressure? We need to talk more about that. How about giving me a call at the number below?

Plumbing the tank is very standard if you choose to go with a Durso style setup, a drain and a return in each overflow would work just fine. From what rufessor said, if I were in the area, I'd be asking if he wouldn't mind my visit to check out how he did it, to admire his setup and "talk story".

If you choose to use the siphon/Herbie style, and if you are not keen on the idea of return plumbing coming up over the back of the tank, then I'd suggest using the large holes in both overflows as drains, each with it's own gate valve. Then use one smaller hole for the emergency drain and one for the Return. Again this is something we can talk about much easier over the phone.

Another thing I would suggest is to ask other hobbyists here to see each overflow style in operation and discuss it while you visit. More than anything we can write here, this will give you the information you need to make the decision that is right for you and your 180. It's loads of fun to visit other hobbyists and see their pride and joy,... not their children, their tank.

lmao