Facebook
Twitter

Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Switching to MH from LED--advice
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Switching to MH from LED--advice

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
Author
kevin.st View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 06 2015
Location: Riverton
Status: Online
Points: 338
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin.st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Switching to MH from LED--advice
    Posted: February 13 2016 at 9:39am
Since I started this hobby, I have only used LED lighting.  I am interested in giving MH a shot because I want to see some better growth.  

Right now I am using a china box LED--165 watts.  I use this at about 80% blue and 50% white.

Can you guys offer any advice on the switch and what else I should know?  

I am not a total noob-I have been doing this for a couple of years.  I have all the test kits needed, run a skimmer, sump and I have a bunch of SPS and a large anemone.
Back to Top
kevin.st View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 06 2015
Location: Riverton
Status: Online
Points: 338
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin.st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 13 2016 at 11:33pm
I ended up getting a 250-400 watt selectable ballast and fixture. I think I will be getting a new radium bulb for it and I will install it this week.

If anybody cares, I will update this post with results. I am excited to see if there's any difference.
Back to Top
Fatman View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: December 23 2011
Location: South Weber, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 1685
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2016 at 8:30am
I'm very interested in seeing what you find out.
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1342
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2016 at 1:18pm
Good choice - I went from MH to LEDs when all the craze started 4-5 years ago, but am back to MH.  I like the deeper coloration MH produces in my sps corals - nothing beats a Radium bulb in appearance.  Enjoy the plug and play lighting.

Edited by bur01014 - February 14 2016 at 1:20pm
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 14 2016 at 9:00pm
My advice: As with any change in lighting, acclimation, acclimation, acclimation. Smile Elevate the MH fixture and shorten the photoperiod. Coral can go a long, long time with subdued light and be just fine, as in a week long tropical storm, but too much light can quickly sunburn all your coral and kill them. I've learned that lesson the hard way. Cry

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
kevin.st View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 06 2015
Location: Riverton
Status: Online
Points: 338
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin.st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2016 at 1:10pm
When I first started looking to change, I could barely find anyone selling MH setups.  But I know a lot of the old timers still use them.  Some of the nicest aquariums I have ever seen were running MH.  

I know that acclimation is going to be an issue.  I am running my current LED at 100%, but I know the MH is going to bright as hell.  How high should I start?  What is the ideal height after acclimation?

I really appreciate the advice, guys.  

I took photos of a bunch of my corals so I can do a before and after comparison.
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1342
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2016 at 2:43pm
if you could provide wattage, bulb name/brand, fixture/pendant type, ballast, and tank size/depth, type of corals - I can give you a pretty good idea of where to start.

Back to Top
dmcrete View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 12 2008
Location: Idaho
Status: Offline
Points: 297
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote dmcrete Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 15 2016 at 9:43pm
I Also am going back to MH Lighting, I have Been Doing Salt Water Now for Over 20 Years, and have used all different Equipment, I Thought the LED'S Were The Answer,,, BUT,, They are lacking Something,, Can't Put my finger on it ,,, BUT,,, Something bout the LED'S,, Any ways,, just switched Back To Metal Halides,, I Was always concerned about the Heat they put off,,, Im just going to have to buck up and Purchase a chiller,, I have them back on my 180 gallon system now for 4 days and can see a noticeable difference already,, in my corals, AND, Just all around looks of the Aquarium,, That Halide Shimmer (I MISSED) CANT BE BEAT, I THINK WHEN A NEW AQUARIUM hobby CRAZE COMES OUT FOR SALE,, everybody JUMPS ABOARD thinking ,, THIS MANY PEOPLE CANT BE WRONG,,, well,,, IN THIS led VS HALIDES,, yes,,  WRONG,, LOVE MY METAL HALIDES,, IM GLAD TO BE BACK using THEM,, I CUT DOWN ON THE WATTAGE By Burning 175 Watts instead of the 250 watt bulbs ,, but,,, UPGRADED THE REFLECTORS TO PFO REFLECTORS,, 99 percent LIGHT REFLECTION RETURN,, AND LESS WATT'S MEANS LESS POWER BILL,, AND I HOPE NOT AS HOT,, All of us in this Aquatic hobby are looking to upgrade and better our Equipment,, BUT,, LED"S Are not for me,,
Back to Top
bstuver View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 17 2006
Location: Provo
Status: Offline
Points: 9298
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bstuver Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 12:35am
I love metal halides! If I didn't go with my ATi T5 I would have went with this fixture:
http://www.reefbrite.com/reefbrite-halide-hybrid/
Only because I love the extra pop that the reefbrite gives me on my T5:)
Jackie Stuver

"wait these aren't the happy Hawaiians oompa doompa godly heaven on your face zoas?   I dont want them then. lol!" Ksmart
Back to Top
Reefer4Ever View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: May 18 2014
Location: South Weber
Status: Offline
Points: 1115
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Reefer4Ever Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 6:50am
What LEDs were you using?
90 gal reef w/refugium
24 gal softie tank
11 gal nano anemone tank
5 gal fresh water
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 8:26am
Originally posted by dmcrete dmcrete wrote:

... I Thought the LED'S Were The Answer,,, BUT,, They are lacking Something,, Can't Put my finger on it ,,, BUT,,, Something bout the LED'S,, Any ways,, just switched Back To Metal Halides....
I believe I know the reason. LED's emit a very narrow band of the complete spectrum. Even an LED that appears white to the human eye, is only part of the complete spectrum, making it look white to our eyes. See the graph below.

Coral need more than that. A very intelligent hobbyist here, that has since moved away, spent about $3000 $1300 to DIY about 10 5 different LED's, trying to make a fuller spectrum LED fixture for her 150. I never heard her rave about how her new lights were doing as well as MH and fluorescent lights did for her coral.  As will be seen from the post below, she does rave about the lights and corrected me on that as well as other points. Good to know it has worked out for her. Smile

Don't get me wrong, I still believe that LED's are the future lighting of this hobby. I said it 10 years ago, when white and then blue and white LED's began hitting the market, and I still believe that LED's will be developed which do provide what coral need to grow robust. The high end, very expensive LED's (Radion and Aqua Illumination), which now are made with about 7 different spectrum LED's, including Ultraviolet, are getting closer. Smile

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
Look at the colored bar at the bottom of the graph, which represents the more complete spectrum emitted by the sun, as compared with the narrow peaks of 14(Shocked) individual LED's.



Edited by Mark Peterson - February 16 2016 at 11:48am
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 8:43am
Oh, I need to add that for about 3 months I was running one of those foreign made black box LED's, an upgraded one with blue and red on one circuit, white and green on the other, on one of my tanks. This tank had previously had fluorescent lights(50% blue, 25% actinic, 25% pink/purple with t5 tubes). It wasn't looking as good under the LED's, so I put the fluorescent fixture back over it. Smile Within a few days, coral were hydrating(expanding) better, had better polyp extension and started showing better overall color.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
kevin.st View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 06 2015
Location: Riverton
Status: Online
Points: 338
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin.st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 9:42am

Thanks, Mark.  I always appreciate your posts. 

I have used a 2nd gen radion, then went to a pair of AI vega colors and now I am using a china box.  I thought I was all set with the AI's, but when I moved to SLC, I sold everything.

I was broke when I got here, but still needed to have any aquarium, so I went with the china box.  Its bright, but I miss the programmability and the color isn't quite as nice the pricier fixtures. 

I am hoping to not run a chiller-I will try the fan thing.

Back to Top
kevin.st View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 06 2015
Location: Riverton
Status: Online
Points: 338
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote kevin.st Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 9:45am

That reefbright halide hybrid looks awesome!! 

Someday when I have some cash, I might look into that.

Back to Top
ReefdUp View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 20 2011
Location: South Weber
Status: Offline
Points: 4164
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 10:06am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

A very intelligent hobbyist here, that has since moved away, spent about $3000 to DIY about 10 different LED's, trying to make a fuller spectrum LED fixture for her 150. I never heard her rave about how her new lights were doing as well as MH and fluorescent lights did for her coral.


Mark,

This post offends me on about 500 different levels; you crossed a line. Once again you took your own personal *lack* of information and twisted it around to make it fit your preconceived notions about a topic. I apologize to the rest of the club for this bit of *drama*, but I've sat in somewhat silence for years. I'm done.

First, the cost is blatantly wrong. I spent $1132.40 in parts, and that number was posted explicitly in several places. Once again, you've exaggerated something to fit your belief system.

Second, I have no idea where you got "10 different LED's" from. I built one single setup for my tank, and I used only five different LED "colors" in that build. My intent was to make a fixture that would reduce costs over MH, help maintain a more stable temperature in my tank, and replicate coral PAR/spectrum needs more closely than other fixtures. This was all explicitly stated in several places.

You never heard me rave about my fixture because I finished it in Dec 2013. That was about the same time that I pretty much left the club because of how you were treating me and others. You made the social aspect of this hobby miserable for me. If you had read my few posts, you would've seen how my growth increased dramatically, how much the colors better the colors appeared, etc.

Of all the things I sold in my move (including my tank), I kept the lights. I never even listed them for sale. I am happy with them, the growth/coloration I got, and my power bill was especially nice. However, I did sell my MH's.

Please do not ever bring me up again or contact me.

Nikki
www.reefdup.com
Diving since 2009, reefkeeping since 2007, & fishkeeping since 1987
200g, 75g, & 15g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21431
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 16 2016 at 11:42am
I was wrong and had incorrectly recalled the cost, but I never intended to offend. Please forgive me. I cannot help but refer to the good stuff that was shared here for a while which was very intelligent and informative. 
I recommend to anyone that would like to DIY their LED's, to find that thread from around 3 years ago and follow the build.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
Smile
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Krazie4Acans View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: December 17 2012
Location: Syracuse
Status: Offline
Points: 23412
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2016 at 10:05am
I did some more reading on the LED lighting topic. While I focused specifically on the lights that I am using I found some very interesting information provided to Ecotech Marine by Reef Wholesalers. Reef Wholesalers (RW) is in the business of growing corals fast and producing the best colors possible to allow them to sell quality corals. They used to use MH and T5 lighting and had spent years coming up with the bulb and color combinations to provide fast growth and great color in their corals. They are very well known for this feet and many others have tried to replicate what they were able to achieve.

Three years ago (when the Radion G3 Pro models became available) Ecotech teamed up with them to provide research on lighting as well as try and find a way to replace the MH and T5 lighting with LED. It worked and RW is now an LED only wholesaler. I found one specific sentence in their report to be very strong in comparing T5 with LED "Although the visual appearance of the light output was different between the T5 bulbs and the Radions�, coral response was similar if not identical. From there further adjustment of the spectrum and fortnightly reviews resulted in a spectrum that  outperformed the T5 benchmark."

So while this may not be true for all LED's, there are some out there that can outperform T5 lighting in both growth and color.

Here is the link to the full write up. http://ecotechmarine.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/01/Ecotech_CoralLab_WP1.pdf
My ocean.
90g (yup, won it!), 40g, 28g, & 10g Systems
PADI Advanced Open Water
Tank Thread:
Back to Top
Fatman View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: December 23 2011
Location: South Weber, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 1685
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2016 at 11:04am
Bingo, Krazie!
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1342
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2016 at 11:20am
uhh, major conflict of interest for that type of research/statement...research sponsored by the LED manufacturer, lol

Edited by bur01014 - February 17 2016 at 11:22am
Back to Top
bur01014 View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: March 02 2010
Location: Salt Lake
Status: Offline
Points: 1342
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote bur01014 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 17 2016 at 12:17pm
Originally posted by Krazie4Acans Krazie4Acans wrote:



So while this may not be true for all LED's, there are some out there that can outperform T5 lighting in both growth and color.



Wow strong statement.  Would be wonderful to find LEDs perform better than T5 in terms of the growth I obtained in my tank throughout the course of a year.


































Don't get me wrong.  Leds work just fine, but it is quite the stretch to say they currently are capable of outperforming T5 or MH in terms of color and growth.  If so, I would have kept my Radions.  I would say they are capable of outperforming T5 and MH in terms of heat and efficiency.

I would love to be proved wrong so I could save on bulb replacements and heat.  Research sponsored by an LED manufacturer doesn't help me too much.  I am anxiously waiting to finally see LEDs do to corals what I know corals can achieve in an enclosed box of glass.  Once that happens, I will try them out again, but for now - royal blue leds will continue to serve as my actinic pop, but not as stand alone lighting.

Even Vivid Aquariums who posted the famous youtube video comparing Metal Halide vs. Radions on their show tank have since gone back to full metal halide on both sides.  Sanjay Joshi, the unbiasied reef lighting expert in the hobby for the last 20 years, currently runs 8-10 radion units over his tank but states clearly the growth and color is not as good as it was under Metal Halide (see his facebook page).  So I think we need to be careful in recommending to fellow hobbyists light sources as being better than others, when in fact that is not true. 

From a bigger picture, Leds will serve most casual hobbyists just fine.  I just didn't like how they paled my coral colors out, which often requires dosing nitrates to counter.  In terms of SPS, Deep purples became light tan, blues turned sky blue, etc.  Leds require lots of fiddling and dialing them in.  The shadowing they produce can also be difficult to deal with, which often requires most SPS junkies to utilize T5s as supplements. 




Edited by bur01014 - February 17 2016 at 12:19pm
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  123>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down



This page was generated in 0.172 seconds.