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    Posted: January 25 2016 at 9:16am
Make sure you test at the same (or close to the same) time each day. Alk does swing and doing one test in the Morning and then dosing and doing another test the next day in the evening will not be quite as accurate. Will it get you in the ball park, yes. For SPS sometimes just being in the ball park isn't enough and you need to be inside the ball diamond.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 25 2016 at 4:16am
Can't give an exact answer to that question, because it's going to be different for every system, due to the differing demand for Alk, Ca and Mg. Yes, Mg too. The following things influence the rate of demand for Alk, Ca and Mg:
- type and amount of coral
- type of sand (need for dosing Ca and Mg is less in the presence of Utah Oolitic Sand)
- amount of sand (advantages of a DSB)
- type and amount of light (sunlight = fastest growth, MH lighting = next fastest growth)
- amount of Coralline Algae
- number of Snails(shell) and other inverts (shrimp/bugs/worms have calcareous exoskeleton/spines)
- number and size of fish (bone)
- level of Alk within the range (there is a sweet spotSmile)

Also note;
When a hobbyist first starts seeing that the demand for Alk and Ca has exceeded what Kalkwasser can deliver, manual dosing once or twice every 10 days is sufficient to bring the levels back up within range so that Kalk can continue to deliver most of the needed Alk and Ca.  At this point there is no need to fret about keeping Alk and Ca at exact numbers every day. The "stability" you may have read about can be ensured by simply keeping these within range on a weekly basis. (Alk 8-12 dKH; Ca 350-500 ppm)

The demand for Mg is slower and can be satisfied by once/month additions. It's okay to raise Mg to something like ~1500 ppm and not dose again until it has dropped to ~1200 ppm.

For me, when the system requires manual dosing more often than bi-weekly, that's when automatic dosing becomes convenient. Smile Your need may differ.

The question eventually comes up, how much to dose? The simple yet IMO most useful answer is to test, dose a little and test again the next day. Following that result, increase or decrease the amount and/or timing of the next dosing accordingly. Testing is an important key to success.
 
Aloha,
Mark  Hug


Edited by Mark Peterson - January 25 2016 at 5:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fishbot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2016 at 9:09pm
It is a weak solution at only one tablespoon. 3 would be fully saturated I think. My current set up is just frags at the moment. I don't plan on adding more until I notice Ca And Alk levels dropping. I am curious though at roughly what month mark you guys hit "peak kalkwasser" and had to bring 2 part or a reactor online.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2016 at 10:19am
One tablespoon of lime in 5 gallons of water is not excess, in fact that makes quite a weak Kalkwasser solution. 

I don't remember if I said this above, but I have done a similar thing, except I placed like 3 Cups of Kalkwasser in the 5 gal bucket with a dosing pump set to top off the ~120 gal coral farm system at night. The Kalkwasser bucket got topped off for 3 or 4 weeks, then the remaining ~1/4 cup of Calcium Hydroxide at the bottom was discarded. The remaining solids had combined with the minute impurities in the RO water to form a few black specks in the remaining CaOH2. I had so much coral and coralline growth that weekly I still had to dose ~2 liters of homemade CaCl2 Ice Melt solution and ~2 liters of Baking Soda(NaHCO3)/Soda Ash(NaCO3) solution to keep Alk and Ca up.

I know it sounds like bragging, but I'm just trying to point out that Kalkwasser top-off water just doesn't cut it when there is significant need for Alk and Ca. In my recent coral farm, which was twice as large, I decided not to bother with Kalkwasser, just do dosing. 

Aloha,
Mark Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 24 2016 at 9:16am
Fishbot- I get what you're saying about not adding any excess.  For most people, running with top off, this isn't possible.  Most people simply can't add enough.  
But obviously if you dump it in your sump you can add excess.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fishbot Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: January 23 2016 at 5:14pm
Great idea on a second ph probe in the mixing vat. I never thought of that.

The method I currently use is a 5 gal bucket with tight lid for a resivore and a toms aqua lifter pump connected to my rkl ato controller. Each week i refill with ro water and stir in a tablespoon of kalk. Pretty easy and combined with weekly water changes (reef crystals) keeps parameters spot on. I like to be able to match the amount of kalk i add to the tanks demand and not add any excess.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote relethg Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2015 at 12:02pm

On my 210 gallon soft coral tank I have a Kalk stirrer that is feed ATO water using a dosing pump. This allows me to continually feed the tank kalk. Currently the tank is being feed 2000ml of this water in 24 hours. This keeps my tank at Ca 400, Alk 8.5-9 DKH. I still have evaporation overhead that is made up using the ATO system. My PH without the kalk was running 7.7-7.9 and now is 7.9-8.1. I do corrections by dosing Mag, Ca and Alk every two weeks. Mostly mag is needed.

In the process of setting up a 120 gallon SPS tank, that I have already purchased a Ca reactor for. I may run Kalk on this tank if I have low PH.

I like the Kalk stirrer and dosing pump setup because I am in complete control of the amount of Kalk going in the tank every day. I have Apex and monitor Tank PH and stirrer PH. The stirrer PH lets me know when to add some more kalk to the stirrer.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 14 2015 at 7:43am
Reefer86, thanks for the information.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reefer86 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2015 at 10:54pm
I use kalk in my auto top off water for my 28 gallon nanocube. I've been using it for the past year with great results. It keeps my calcium and alkalinity very stable. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2015 at 1:56pm
From what I read, its a difficult process that requires a lot of patience and careful calculation/implementation but can be quite beneficial once dialed in. Normally ph doesn't need to be checked but when you're doing something that could potentially cause a large swing or low/high ph beyond what it should be, you should keep track of it so you know you're not getting into bad spots.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2015 at 8:38am
I don't see 8.0 as being a problem, not if Alk is good. Have you ever checked ORP/Redox? We used to put a lot of stock in that too, like it had to be above 300, but we have also found that to be kind of a waste of time. 
By waste I don't mean we should throw it out the window. What I mean is that we don't need to worry about it and like pH we really don't need to be checking it. Keeping the basic parameters like Alk, Ca and N in range and making sure there is good gas exchange with turbulent action of the water surface seems to be enough to keep coral happy.

Btw, I edited the previous post P.S. just now.

Here is the Randy Holmes-Farley article on ORP:

Aloha,
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2015 at 8:25am
pH has been a problem in my tank, typically running around 8.0. Dripping kalk in a 150 gallon system (estimated water volume) may increase the pH, but I'm constantly dripping so it shouldn't swing to much, just work up gradually.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2015 at 5:11am
Originally posted by ttabbal ttabbal wrote:

Using this calculator...
https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/KalkContribution.php
1 gallon of saturated kalk solution (not vinegar enhanced) added to a 120 gallon system contributes.. 
7.31 ppm Calcium 
1.03 dKH Alk 
That doesn't sound right. Kalkwasser is a balanced additive. The ratio of 7 ppm Ca to 1 dKH Alk does not seem balanced when you compare the operating parameters ratio of 350-500 ppm Ca to 8-11 dKH Alk. I could be wrong but I don't think the increase in Alk could be that much from 1 gal of Kalkwasser(Limewater) solution added to 100 gal of saltwater.
.
.
To answer Adam's comment, Yes, that is what I am saying. 

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

P.S.
If I understand the chemistry correctly, Kalkwasser delivers a load of ions which immediately and substantially raises the pH (thus the need to dose by slow drip). Then, within an hour or so the ions join with other elements and compounds allowing pH to drop back down to just a little higher than the original reading. I'm going to go back and re-read these by the guru Randy Holmes-Farley: 


Edited by Mark Peterson - December 13 2015 at 8:43am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote phys Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 13 2015 at 3:28am
I've never even wanted to try dosing kalk just due to the extra work involved. But it sounds like you have it mostly figured out. A quick reading suggests you need to maintain mag levels as it may cause higher than normal ph shifts and you must also keep the alk in constant check as it can be depleted at a higher rate which can also be affected by CO2 levels present (which is taken care of by the vinegar). I'm sure you know that but just doubling up since it hasn't been fully mentioned. Ps.. I may have some equipment/suggestions for you.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2015 at 3:44pm
Originally posted by ttabbal ttabbal wrote:

Using this calculator...

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/KalkContribution.php

1 gallon of saturated kalk solution (not vinegar enhanced) added to a 120 gallon system contributes.. 

7.31 ppm Calcium 
1.03 dKH Alk 

There's also the PH rise to be concerned about. If it's spread out over the day like those that use an ATO for dosing it, it's likely not a big issue. But it does limit how much you can use in a given time period. Those numbers match my observed results. 

I've been studying this stuff, as my alk/cal kept dropping. I don't have any SPS, mostly Euphillia LPS, and some Z&Ps. Kalk keeps the levels up pretty well in my case, but it's starting to show its limits. 

The reason it seems like small amounts should work well is that you're looking at the solid form. Once added to water and settled out, it's less potent. However, doing that allows impurities to settle out along with, according to some research, some metals like copper. You don't want to dose the powder, it's pretty harsh and if it comes into contact with your animals they get irritated. I found out the hard way, accidentally, don't do that. Mix and let sit for a few hours, then dose the clear liquid. 

I recently started using really small amounts of BRS 2 part, about 20mL/day, along with kalk at night, about 500mL/day over 6 doses. Using a Jaebo dosing pump. That seems to keep things about where I want them now. 

Auto water change is next on my radar, just need to get my 3D printer dialed in and get some designs printing. I'm leaning toward a 2-head peristaltic pump driven by a stepper motor. 


Nice on the auto water changes. I'd be interested in seeing how you are going to do that.

My kalk drips about a gallon or a little more in a 24 hour period. I'm doing a water test today to see where I am as a baseline and work from there. Thanks for the calculator.

Fat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ttabbal Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2015 at 3:39pm
Using this calculator...

https://www.hamzasreef.com/Contents/Calculators/KalkContribution.php

1 gallon of saturated kalk solution (not vinegar enhanced) added to a 120 gallon system contributes.. 

7.31 ppm Calcium 
1.03 dKH Alk 

There's also the PH rise to be concerned about. If it's spread out over the day like those that use an ATO for dosing it, it's likely not a big issue. But it does limit how much you can use in a given time period. Those numbers match my observed results. 

I've been studying this stuff, as my alk/cal kept dropping. I don't have any SPS, mostly Euphillia LPS, and some Z&Ps. Kalk keeps the levels up pretty well in my case, but it's starting to show its limits. 

The reason it seems like small amounts should work well is that you're looking at the solid form. Once added to water and settled out, it's less potent. However, doing that allows impurities to settle out along with, according to some research, some metals like copper. You don't want to dose the powder, it's pretty harsh and if it comes into contact with your animals they get irritated. I found out the hard way, accidentally, don't do that. Mix and let sit for a few hours, then dose the clear liquid. 

I recently started using really small amounts of BRS 2 part, about 20mL/day, along with kalk at night, about 500mL/day over 6 doses. Using a Jaebo dosing pump. That seems to keep things about where I want them now. 

Auto water change is next on my radar, just need to get my 3D printer dialed in and get some designs printing. I'm leaning toward a 2-head peristaltic pump driven by a stepper motor. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2015 at 12:50pm
My reasons for doing the kalk is to help balance the alk/ca in the tank. I still dose alk, CA and mag. Carbon too.

I'l hoping the kalkwasser dosed in a drip will help keep the tank stable. I worry about dumping a whole dose of alk and ca in the evenings. I'm trying to get things to be stable and lower my dosing requirements. If I didn't have six kids and ten grandchildren to shop for this Christmas I'd buy some BRS dosing pumps and not drip kalk.

I'd also like to get some additional BRS dosing pumps to set my tank up for a 1% daily water change.

Fat
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2015 at 9:12am
Phys- well true, for the times you don't want to add alk you'd be better with CaCl snow melt, but that's just to correct levels not maintain. Typically you do want to add both.

I'm still wondering if Mark is arguing that kalk doesn't have much of an effect. Sure sounds like it does to me.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Trevor40 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2015 at 8:55am
I dose Kalk on my top of water to help balance pH and assist my Ca reactor. I would never use it as my main source and get the impression that most people use it in addition to other dosing methods.

With a tank heavily stocked with SPS I find that it helps keep Alk and Ca more stable than using a Ca reactor alone.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 11 2015 at 7:00am
This may seem like it is becoming an argument between us, but that's only because each reef aquarium has different demands/needs for Alkalinity and Calcium. Remember too that Kalkwasser is Calcium Hydroxide. It's a balanced additive but that does not mean that testing can be ignored, nor that Alk and Ca supplementation will not be required. Also, it contains no Magnesium, so Mg will still need to be monitored and dosed periodically.

Even if all top off water is Kalkwasser, the amount of Alk and Ca it delivers is only enough for tanks with just a few stony coral, unless other direct Alk and Ca supplementation is utilized. Even Coralline Algae and Snails use Alk and Ca. "Purple" rock tanks can be higher demand users where the need cannot be met by Kalkwasser only.

Caution: It must be dripped slowly otherwise too much Calcium Hydroxide added at once will make the pH shoot up through the roof, damaging the animals. (Vinegar added to the Kalkwasser solution moderates this effect.)

Aloha,
Mark  Hug

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