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Plumbing in Frag Tank to main system

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Bryce View Drop Down
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    Posted: October 27 2014 at 4:51pm
(Long post sorry) So I will be plumbing in a 20 gallon JBJ -RL all in one frag tank into my main 65 gallon system and just wanted to reach out to the board /forum to see if anyone who has done this or know anyone who has knows any lessons learned before I put everything together. The reason I am doing this is I want the same water and all the benefits and come from sharing the equipment that come with it as usually hobbyist frag tanks I have seen have algae problems/ need duplicate equipment and I also have primarily sps which are temperamental about parameters anyway and also in theory this way the maintenance should not increase exponentially. 

Currently I have a 65 gallon with a 20 gallon sump that sits up against a wall and behind the wall is a utility closet that I already have a hole cut through the wall and have certain cords, ato, reactor going to /plumbed to the main systems 20 gallon sump as I simply ran out of room under my tank/in the sump so they are in the closet. 

The new frag tank is drilled and will be in the utility closet and and also plumbed through the wall into my systems sump using a Herbie overflow set up (one full siphon with a spears gate valve and one emergency). The frag tank return pump will be in the same sump compartment as my main return pump and the drains will also go to the same sump section as the main system drains. The frag tank will not flood the sump in event of power outage/frag tank pump failure as it was an all in one frag tank before I had it drilled and the way the back compartment on the frag tank is, only a very small amount of water will back siphon from the drain or the frag tank return pump outlet and I will also have a check valve as a fail safe on the return pump.

I plan to run the frag tank bare bottom, and will be using the same light as on my main system just at a lower intensity.

One item I have considered is a return pump failure for either the main system or the frag tank but neither should result in a flood if my thinking is correct, the Herbie's could be out of balance but I cant think of how a flood could happen- one tank would simply not have circulation.

Anyway, if anyone has any lessons learned, suggestions, or "oh man if you are going to do that you should consider this" please pass them along. Thanks 
 


Edited by Bryce - October 27 2014 at 5:07pm
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 8:21pm
Assuming all water returns up to the 65 then drains from the 65 to the new 20 and then to the sump/Refugium it should work well. Test it by pulling the plug on the return pump but keep your hand on the plug to re-start in case something looks like it's going to overflow.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 8:28pm
Hi Mark, no that's not how it will flow, the 65 gallon will run independent of the new 20g frag tank, they will simply share the same sump, both the 65g and the new 20g frag will have their own return pumps, own drains, just share a sump. I want it that way in case later down the road I want to take the frag tank offline I can just shut the frag tank down without doing anything to the 65 gallon. Think of it as two "display" tanks just sharing a sump but not drains or return pumps.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 8:37pm


65g on left, frag tank on right, sump under the 65g, each tank runs "independent" of each other in that they don't share return pumps or drains, they just share the same sump, water, reactors, ato, heater, doser, skimmer, and refugium.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote builderofdreams Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 10:01pm
Originally posted by Bryce Bryce wrote:



65g on left, frag tank on right, sump under the 65g, each tank runs "independent" of each other in that they don't share return pumps or drains, they just share the same sump, water, reactors, ato, heater, doser, skimmer, and refugium.
Phosphates, nitrates and any other issue  each  tank could have and  will share. Not being rude just not a fan of that idea. IMO to much Risk. Keep them seperated.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 27 2014 at 10:07pm
Not sure I follow that Paul, the frag tank will have frags from my own tank and nothing else besides maybe some snails, what would generate any of what you mentioned? If anything I would be adding 20 gallons of cleaner water/ buffer? Imo frag tanks isolated will have the exact problems you mentioned as typically they dont have all the reactors, beneficial bacteria a mature reef has in the sand and live rock, etc. No offense taken by the way I asked for opinions and value all.

Edited by Bryce - October 27 2014 at 10:25pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Fatman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 7:47am
That is how I did mine. On a 120 with a 30 gallon frag tank and a 40 gallon sump. It works well for me. I use separate pumps for each. The frag tank gets the benefits of the sock filters, heaters, macro, the skimmer and the carbon and GFO reactor.

If either or both pumps stop the sump fills to about 3/4 full. Ideally, I would have built a nice stand for the frag tank and moved it out near the display tank and given it it's own sump, but I didn't want to buy and maintain another skimmer, etc. This setup has worked well for my situation.

The only thing I would recommend is True Union ball valves. They open and close easily and when I need to modify the line layout or clean the sump they come apart very easily to give access.


   
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 9:02am
I agree with Fatman, so long as the sump operating level is low enough that when the power goes out the overflow from both tanks does not flood the sump. The reason I bring this up is because it's happened before to more than one WMAS hobbyist that split the return into two or more tanks. This is especially troublesome if a drain clogs and the ATO keeps topping off. (Murphy's Law, you know, Wacko not to mention if the power goes off at the house).

One key is placement of the return pump. I position submersible return pumps near the water surface so they can't pump all the water out of the sump which could flood the display. 

I believe what builderofdreams is saying is that when all are connected by water flow, a disease/pest that gets introduced in one tank may transfer into the other tanks. This is definitely a concern, but in reality it's not as problematic as it may seem. 

In my farm of six successive connected "tidal pools", I've found that, for the most part, animals actually stay in their own tanks. Of course, I watch carefully to correct any issue that starts to arise. In some cases, I have turned off the return pump for a day or two during the treatment of a single tank. Each tank has it's own internal circulation pump. Like Fatman's system and your plan, one skimmer, etc. processes all the water.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Bryce Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: October 28 2014 at 9:52am
Hi Fatman, thanks for the comment, I will be using unions and threaded PVC almost everywhere just like I have on my 65g which is awesome for maintenance and when I had to move the tank a year in a half ago it made that a lot easier and like I said if I just decide to take the frag tank offline I want it to be very easy to do so.

Mark, thanks as well, the sump can definitely handle the extra water which should be less than a gallon but it will all be tested both as a total power outage and then shutting down each return pump independently and my return pump chamber in my sump is very small, only 1.5 gallons. My ATO has multiple fail safes but yes a out of wack ATO is always a risk.

As far as pests go even if you have separate tanks pests are just as much as an issue if they are connected if you are not dipping, inspecting, quarantining, etc. and in reality people with two tanks usually use the same tools, feeders, hoses for water changes, move corals and fish between the two tanks, etc. (at least I did when I had multiple tanks). Further if the tanks were not connected I would still be taking frags from my main system and putting them into the frag tank so pest transfer is still and issue but knock on wood I have no pests that I know about or have ever been an issue (my bubble algae bugs me though, haha)

If the frag tank was going to have really low flow (which it certainly won't) I could see maybe detritus build up being an issue but I think with my planned flow, and the fact that its only a 9 inch deep tank, no sand or fish, it should be super easy to deal with any dead spots with a turkey baster/power head every now and then. Thanks everyone.


Edited by Bryce - October 28 2014 at 9:53am
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