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Ideas on my idea of making a new System

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akv123 View Drop Down
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    Posted: August 17 2014 at 6:06am
Please forgive the crudeness of this drawing. I've been "researching" ideas for seeting up a new system and adding a sump. Its just a 20 gallon tank with a 20 gallon sump.... for now.... Anyways, pretty sure I want to drill my tank. I've already done all the looking into it and I know the tank isn't tempered on the bottom, so it should be ok... 

Acrylic inlet and outlet pipes near the back of the tank plumbed through the bottom. Surface skimming adapter close to the surface for the inlet pipe and the top of outlet pipe near surface to create a cool water effect and disturb the surface a bunch. probably going to be low flow pump in sump.

The main reason to have the pipes opening at the surface is to prevent water for getting out during an outage. And to just try it. 

Anyways please let me know if there is a major problem with this idea and save me the headache of making a big mistake.

Thanks. :) 






Edited by akv123 - August 17 2014 at 6:09am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote 1stupidpunk Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2014 at 6:56am
If it was my tank i would drill a third hole for an emergency overflow. Placed just slightly higher than what you have labeled as "IN". In the event that your plumbing get clogged (happens occasionally from snails/algae/etc) the 2nd emergency overflow will divert the water back into the sump verses it filling up the tank and spilling over the edges onto your floor. Theres tons of reference pictures of this type of set up on the internet.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ReefdUp Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2014 at 6:58am
On my QT and hospital tank (QT is a 20g), I drilled the back panes instead of the bottom. I have an elbow threaded into the bulkhead. The elbow isn't straight up so that it pulls the surface water. If I'm worried about fish or inverts going down the drain, an old bioball plugging the elbow is great.

This way you won't have ugly pvc to hide through your tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2014 at 9:15am
I agree with Nikki, drilling the top side is much better. Much tank space is wasted by these full length overflows. Also, the more holes drilled the weaker the glass, especially the thin glass of a 20 gal tank. I would have the return come over the top and gooseneck down and back up.

To be frank about it, overflows can create problems of their own. For a 20 gal tank, a sump/refugium is almost overkill. Beautiful reef aquariums don't need a sump/Refugium. I remember a ~40 gal hex tank your dad had in the living room. If I recall correctly, it did not have an overflow but was often plagued with nuisance algae. We have come a long way since then. Here are some examples from my files:



Above is a 75 gal box of water and below a 10 gal. Both were featured as Tank of the Month in 2003 and 2008 respectively.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 17 2014 at 4:53pm
Thanks guys! A appreciate the comments. I'm not 100% sure what I'm going to do yet, but I'm glad I have a place to go for help and advice.

I bought a 17.1 gallon 24x12x14 low iron rimless aquarium and I'm trying to avoid mechanical clutter. That's why the bottom plumbing idea vs a regular overflow box or side drilling. I am aware that there will always be something mechanical that is visible. Just trying to minimize it and maybe do away with it.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 18 2014 at 7:33am
A non overflow tank should typically have less clutter than one with bulky overflows. It takes some forethought and planning to hide circulation pumps. Here is my latest custom setup for an old WMAS friend. A non overflow tank was the best option because simplicity was important here.



SPS and all other coral are growing like crazy in this ~6 month old, 75 gal reef that was set up with 90% Utah Rock and Utah Sand. Six Clownfish, two Blue Chromis and two Yellow Tangs are the current fish population. The purple hue to the rock is a covering of new growth Coralline Algae.

Aloha,
Mark  Hug
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2014 at 2:06am
Here are the updates on the DIY aquarium system.... 



I have a little 4 gallon tank that desperately needs upgrading. I recently bought a 17.1 gallon rimless just for that purpose, and I have been looking for a cabinet to go with it that looks modern, and also big enough to accommodate future upgrades.  Well, just by luck we found a cabinet on someones driveway sidewalk that had a "free, take me" sign on it, and just about a block away from our house! What luck! So we loaded it up and got it home. 



I think someone already used it for a tank stand because it was reinforced with 9 2x6s (no joke, probably could have held 1200 pounds) and there is a bit of possible water damage on the inside floor. 

It already had a solid wood top on it and 3/4 inch thick particle board sides, back, and bottom. So its pretty strong, but I decided to add an inside frame just to tighten it up and so I can sleep at night not worried about a 160lb tank on top of a piece of Ikea furniture... 



I used 1 3/8 inch x 1 3/8 inch redwood to make the "ribs" and then the same dimension pinewood to support the frame. 



There will be 2 "ribs" before its finished and a pull out shelf on bottom slides, like a cabinet drawer, where the pine is. 



Here it is with the doors on.



Here it is next to the current tank. I am excited to get all that junk underneath hidden away. 



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: August 20 2014 at 7:19am
Awesome. That should work great. Thumbs Up

If you haven't seen it, below is one of my rimless 40 gal breeder coral farm tanks, before the growth started to take off and before ~30 fish were added. This old pic best illustrates the point I'm trying to make.

Ignoring the ABS plastic siphon apparatus in the back left corner, can you see the mechanical equipment? That's because one MJ1200 stream powerhead is barely visible on the sand. A little aquascaping could easily hide it. The high water flow (1300 gph) enables the biofiltration(LS, LR, Macroalgae) to handle all waste. A heater is only necessary in the winter. A heater can be placed horizontally, hidden by rock or a rock structure can naturally and artistically climb one corner, hiding the heater behind it.

The wave action is awesome, yet can be turned off temporarily for unique top down viewing.



See this unique set up at MarksReef Coral Farm in Murray.
Aloha,
Mark  Hug
808-345-1049


Edited by Mark Peterson - August 20 2014 at 7:44am
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2014 at 4:12am
Here are a few pics for an update.

Its got water and sand the light is up and the whole thing its running.


I took Mark's advice about not drilling such a small tank and avoiding an underneath sump/fuge for the same reason. Personally I want to have it as clean as possible so I originally planned on pluming through the bottom and putting everything in the cabinet with just the tank and light showing, but after listing to a few people, and searching for alternatives, I decided that it added a level of complexity that just was not necessary for a 17 gallon tank. Not to mention the possible headaches of doing it all myself, the chance of braking the tank, the extra money it would cost (trust me, I would find a way to make a simple diy project cost a lot of money), and opening up myself to floods and problems that I don't need. 

Here is what I did instead. 


I bought an overflow box for 31$ and put it on myself (real tough stuff). It took about 3 minutes.

I bought a HOB Finnex 1 gallon breader box for 30$ too, and turned it into a refugium... We will see how that goes.  



And it came with an 40gph pump that just so happens to fit inside of the surface skimmer.


I had to look around for a while to find the right size box to fit that pump. They are all long and skinny or really small. This one is a CPR ,I think, 5" Wide x 4" Deep x 5.25" Tall.

Here it is mostly finished. Just need to add stuff eventually. 


I had originally planned on running pipes on the left side, down into the cabinet to a canister filter, but decided not to. Thus the off center tank. I'm either going to move it to center, or, put a vase and some flowers on the side. Haven't decided yet. Probably better to have it centered though. 

Filtration consists/will consist of refugium with macro algae, a bag of carbon, and a bag of chem pure elite. I also have a bag of Purigen in the old tank but will transfer it over too once I move the livestock. Not sure if all that is necessary, but I  am trying/hoping to keep the water balanced so I can move stuff soon. We will see.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 03 2014 at 4:35pm
That's a nice clean looking set up, but I have one big concern. I can go into more detail later if you like, but you need to know that evaporation will effect the water level solely in the overflow box. The water levels will stay constant in the tank and the rear Refugium. Per your dimensions (5"x4"x4"/231 minus the volume of the 40 gph powerhead), I estimate only about 3 cups of water evaporation before the return powerhead sucks air and eventually burns out if the water is not topped off.

The stand alone tank pictured below(TOTM May 2003) has a hidden second powerhead pushing deeper water to the surface to provide excellent gas exchange and water flow to support the many animals. Can you find it?

Aloha  Hug


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote akv123 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2014 at 2:07am
that is a really good point, I dint realize that it would work that way. Hmmm. I have noticed just how quickly water is evaporating. It wasn't something I was really worried about, but it could be a big problem. I definitely couldn't go on vacation very long without it drying out in that box.... Thanks for saying something. I appreciate the feedback. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 04 2014 at 8:31am
In case it wasn't clear, the point of my post above is that a stand alone box of water can work beautifully. There is an old acronym for a principle which engineers use from time to time, KISS. Here is the explanation copied from Wikipedia:
KISS is an acronym for "Keep it simple, stupid" as a design principle noted by the U.S. Navy in 1960.[1][2] The KISS principle states that most systems work best if they are kept simple rather than made complicated; therefore simplicity should be a key goal in design and unnecessary complexity should be avoided. The phrase has been associated with aircraft engineer Kelly Johnson (1910–1990).[3] The term "KISS principle" was in popular use by 1970.[4] Variations on the phrase include "keep it short and simple" and "keep it simple and straightforward"

Okay, so what do we do when our idea doesn't work? We look for a way to modify it so it does work, or, we abandon it. This idea for an external HOB(hang-on-back) Refugium has been done over and over with good results but, for the serious hobbyist, to place the pump in the small overflow box is simply not a workable solution. An external HOB Refugium needs to have the powerhead open to the general water, not isolated in the box.

Most people just modify a large HOB filter for their HOB Refugium. These filters have a pump inside/attached to the filter box or alternatively, hanging in the open tank. I have two large HOB filters available that could be used for this purpose and I also have two Skilters(an ingenious HOB filter with a little Skimmer, hence the name).

Let's look again at my main point. The pictured 10 gal Tank of the Month ran successfully for about 5 years in my nieces bedroom. Though I was the leader in advocating the external Refugium for many years, over the last few years I have set up many successful stand alone tanks. Sometimes a Refugium just isn't possible or practical. Sometimes it's just plain ugly.

Another point I'd ike to make is that Biological Filtration in the aquarium is more powerful and adaptable than many people give credit. Effective biological filtration makes use of the natural ecological system, including the algae component. Algae is the basis of life. Algae, bacteria and bugs were placed on the earth to prepare for the larger animals.

Aloha  Hug

P.S.
There are easy tricks to avoiding the floating film that forms on the water surface in a stand alone tank that I can share if you're interested.
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