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Alkalinity Questions

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fishyman19 View Drop Down
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    Posted: May 27 2014 at 12:32pm
I've been dealing with a bit of an alk issue for the last 2 months and I can't seem to get it to stabilize  at all. It's in the right place one day then the next day it drops way low. What causes it to drop and climb so high? I know SPS corals can be a huge drainer of ALK but my first drop of alk back in March pretty much wiped out all but 4 frags of sps. I guess I'm not very familiar with it. I've noticed that since I switched my lights from 250 watt MH to Kessils that the drop isn't as huge as it was before but it still drops below normal. And it's not just a little subtle drop either. One day it will be sitting pretty at around 7.5 in the morning and around 11 at night it will drop down to 6. 

I do dose some ALK I get from Aquatic Evolution, but I just can't seem to get the right  amount I need to do. I'm tired of seeing my corals super happy then the next day pissed off a the world. Are there any ways to keep it more stable or am I just going to be in an everlasting battle with it?
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Krazie4Acans View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2014 at 12:52pm
Are you dosing by hand or using pumps? how much are you dosing and when? What are your other params when your Alk drops to 6? Are any of the other levels effected? Krazie
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fishyman19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2014 at 12:58pm
Let me test again tonight and I'll let you know. As far as dosing goes the recommended amount on the bottle I'm using is 4tsp twice a week. I was doing the 4 daily and it was stable for a while but then dipped down again. Then I upped it to 6 a day and that seemed to work, but if I miss a day it drops a ton. And I can't seem to get it to stay at 7-8. It will go from 6-9 without any problem during a few days time. Is that bad? I tested Calcium and Magnesium last night and Calcium was at 450 and Magnesium was at 1300 or the other way around whichever one goes with which, but I dose those 2 once a week right now and they stay pretty consistent. It doesn't seem to effect the other levels too much at all. 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Krazie4Acans Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2014 at 2:14pm
Daily dosing (sometimes multiple times daily)is a must to keep the levels stable. Generally speaking you should dose your alk when your PH is at it's lowest (about 2 hours after our lights go out until 30 minutes before your lights come on) as Alk will raise your PH significantly.

Drip dosing is much more likely not to shock your system. It is recommended that the level not be raised more than 1.2Dkh in one day (which is one of the reasons daily dosing is a must). Krazie
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fishyman19 View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fishyman19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2014 at 2:21pm
So if I run my lights 1pm-9pm, I work 9-5 I dose usually in the morning since I had people tell me the same thing you did. Should I dose at night before bed as well? What do you do with your dosing? I may need to invest in a dosing pump....darn expensive necessities lol
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2014 at 3:42pm
In my book, dosing pumps and Ca Reactors are not necessities, but can become a convenience with a constantly growing bioload. Maybe we need to know more about the tank. The need for Alk may be greater than we realize:
- Besides SPS coral, what other carbonate building organisms are there, such as
Coralline Algae, other coral(stony and soft), Snails, Tridacna Clams, Vermitid Snails, benthic clams, Feather Duster Worms, Coco Worms, Hermits, Halimeda Algae and other crabs and shrimp?
- What sand, how deep and how old?
- Is there any Carbonate precipitation/crystallization on pumps and/or surfaces?
- Is this tank running carbon dosing? What method?

Some points to note:
- A swing of <1 dKH/day will usually be no problem over the long run. You said it drops 1.5 dKH in less than 24 hours! This is definitely unusual, not only in the degree of change but the value of the morning starting point of 7.5 dKH is a bit low for most tanks.
- An increased volume of Alk and Ca buffering components, like aragonite sand, rock, and just plain saltwater will reduce the dependency on frequent dosing. Think of it as a bank account of Alk and Ca. A larger amount in the bank requires less frequent deposits to keep it above the minimum. I believe this is what is meant by the term "buffering".
- The drop in Carbonate usage with that change in lighting may be only temporary, but my opinion is that the MH's were causing faster growth.
- I don't know if this helps, but in coral farming, I have manually dosed every other day a weekly total of almost 2 liters of Alk and 2 liters of Ca.
- Commercial Alk products and homemade Alk (made using Soda and soda ash), are balanced additives. These will not affect pH. (It is Kalkwasser that has a high pH which makes it best added at night when tank pH is at it's lowest.)

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Edited by Mark Peterson - May 27 2014 at 3:52pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote wickedsnowman Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 27 2014 at 4:09pm
Every tank consumes cal, alk and mag at different rates. So do not follow the recommended amount on the bottle because they have no idea how much your tank is consuming. If your mag is truly at 1300 my best guess would be you are not dosing enough alk solution. Most tanks as they mature require daily dosing to stay stable. If your tank is consuming 1.5 dkh per day and you miss a day then it will drop 3 dkh. If you have white calcium build up on your glass, power heads and heater. Then your levels are not balanced or your low on mag. Cal, alk and mag all play off each other.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote fishyman19 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2014 at 11:39am
Thanks for all the advice.   Mark I've tried to answer your questions best below.

Most of my coral right now is soft or LPS, 

I've got a decent amount of Coralline algae throughout the tank, mainly on the back glass panel and on the rocks. I keep it off the sides and front the best i can.  I've got roughly around 150 snails or so. Mostly the burrowing type snails with 3 turbos and astrea or however you spell them snails. . I haven't put any feather dusters or coco worms in the tank, but some are popping up here and there. Hermits total around 50 I would guess with 3 emerald crabs, 1 fighting conch a urchin, a halloween hermit crab, sand sifting star, and no shrimp. My wrasse population won't allow it lol.

Sand bed is probably 2 years old and probably 3-4 inches. Came with the tank when I bought it last August. I spent about an hour washing it all though with RO water until the water was clear. And then mixed it with some of my old sand. I have a few critters and snails that plow through the sand so it's not clumping up or getting hard. 

I don't see any carbonate precipitation or crystallization on anything, I keep my systems really clean. 

I don't run any carbon dosing. The only thing that sits in my sock a couple bags of PhosGuard 

I found out what products I'm using to dose and they are coming from the Continuum Aquatics. I get their Alk, Mag, Calcium and  Coral Exponential from them. 

I did my routine water change last night and dosed just the 4tsp of alk just to see what it did. I use the saliferts testing kits and it tested at 5.2 or 7.7DKH. I tested again this morning and it was at 4.8 or 8.3DKH. Is that a normal swing for an 8 hour period? I will test again after work today and see where it sits. I'll test the rest of my levels as well and report on what they are at as well. 



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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: May 28 2014 at 9:49pm
Thanks for that info. May we see a pic of the tank?
Is there a sump/refugium? Pic?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Matthew Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: June 12 2014 at 4:48pm
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