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A Nice Reef Tank, Quickly - The BobsReef Method

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love2skiutah View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote love2skiutah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2013 at 4:46pm
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

I see a lot of fake coral on the shelves behind that evidently makes up the beautiful coral heads in this large tank. In the absence of adequate in-tank biological filtration, some extensive filtration equipment must be situated outside the display, right?


This is just the company that built his rock structure so those are probably someone else's. All his coral is real. He has a thread on reef central with almost 800 pages on this tank. He started out with live rock and then ripped it all out and then did ceramic rock. The guys he referred me to were back east and they actually get their stuff from cerameco in salt lake.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote love2skiutah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 29 2013 at 4:53pm
Bob, I want to see your write up on media!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reefguru Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 5:37am
Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:

Gotta love this thread. I wait with great anticipation for each new section.
I agree with Bob about picking up MH lights for a good price, but I believe that PC lighting works well too and can also be found at good prices because of the LED rage. I currently have unplugged my DIY dual 55W PC which was lighting the sections of my system located in the shadow to the side of the window.  I had raised it to two feet above the tanks but it was still too bright, causing red Macro, Ulva and Coralline algae to bleach and burn.
I use Helios brand Super Grow tubes in all my PC fixtures. They look like this:
This pink-blue combo combined with a full Actinic PC surprises people at how well it makes colors pop and coral grow. I dislike how the standard blue-white PC tubes make colors look washed out.

My 2 cents,
Mark Hug


Not trying to be rude but......Lets not forget this is Bob's thread about how to build a nice modern reef aquarium, you have you own "how to" thread with your methods.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 9:36am
I'm OK w/ Mark adding his input...
 
Gotta give him credit, at least he is passionate about what he feels and sticks to his guns Clap
 
And, don't worry - we'll get him into the 21st century sooner or later Wink
 
My knocks on PCs vs. MH are these:
 
 - Since PC lighting has been 'out of favor / not the HOT thing' for a long while now, finding used fixtures is not as easy as finding used MH stuff (which right now is flooding the used equip market at bargain basement pricing, as many of the MH freaks are trying to become LED freaks - me included)
 
 - MH I know will absolutely grow ANY SPS corals; including the rarer / HE stuff like Red Dragon or Pearlberry Acros, Oregon Torts, 20K Lokani, etc... Personally, I would not chance a $100+ Red Dragon frag under PC lighting under any circumstances 
 
("Mark, that's just crazy talk!" as Adam would say LOL)
 
 - Going forward, the already small- niche PC market will continue to dwindle; I can forsee a time when finding any new PC bulbs in larger sizes may be a challenge - MHs, on the other hand, will always be around - as there is still a substantial loyal market for them despite the influx of LED technology
- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -

* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote justchillinuno Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 9:50am
Thank you for this write up... We are about to change out of our 55g and into the 90g we bought from Jeffm Awhile ago... I am going to use this for getting the new tank up and ready for our current reef transfer!


Thanks again this is great!
55g - RIP - Moved to 90g
36g Bow holding tank
90g Reef Tank
Dreams of many more!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote love2skiutah Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:12am
Originally posted by BobC63 BobC63 wrote:

 
 
 - Since PC lighting has been 'out of favor / not the HOT thing' for a long while now, finding used fixtures is not as easy as finding used MH stuff (which right now is flooding the used equip market at bargain basement pricing, as many of the MH freaks are trying to become LED freaks - me included)
 
 

For example.  I purchased my Hallide/T5 set for $1,200.  2 years old and I dumped it for $100.  Cry - I have nothing against MH, I just have a heat issue with my tank, so I'm hoping that switching to LED will help out so I don't have to get a chiller.  
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jdinchak Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:33am
Originally posted by BobC63 BobC63 wrote:

I'm OK w/ Mark adding his input...
 
Gotta give him credit, at least he is passionate about what he feels and sticks to his guns Clap
 
And, don't worry - we'll get him into the 21st century sooner or later Wink
 
My knocks on PCs vs. MH are these:
 
 - Since PC lighting has been 'out of favor / not the HOT thing' for a long while now, finding used fixtures is not as easy as finding used MH stuff (which right now is flooding the used equip market at bargain basement pricing, as many of the MH freaks are trying to become LED freaks - me included)
 
 - MH I know will absolutely grow ANY SPS corals; including the rarer / HE stuff like Red Dragon or Pearlberry Acros, Oregon Torts, 20K Lokani, etc... Personally, I would not chance a $100+ Red Dragon frag under PC lighting under any circumstances 
 
("Mark, that's just crazy talk!" as Adam would say LOL)
 
 - Going forward, the already small- niche PC market will continue to dwindle; I can forsee a time when finding any new PC bulbs in larger sizes may be a challenge - MHs, on the other hand, will always be around - as there is still a substantial loyal market for them despite the influx of LED technology


I had a PC/MH setup a friend gave me and the bulbs for PC got so expensive and hard to find we sold that unit. 

I still love my T5's but I can't argue a MH, I have been in hobby 4 years and when we started all you heard was MH, some amazing tanks are running great on their MH's. 


180G Mixed Reef Tank

170G Dart Frog Tank
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 11:34am
Bob is great to accept our comments.
When I wrote that old thread I did most of it in a few days so there wasn't time for many comments to be inserted but, ...plenty of comments came in later pages. It was also focused mainly on biofiltration. I didn't touch pumps, lighting, etc. like Bob is doing. This thread is awesome as it allows a discussion about not only the many options for any hobbyist in their particular situation but it also seems to come together with conclusions that make sense for most hobbyists. Bob is brilliant.Thumbs Up
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Aquatic Evolution Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 3:17pm
Well said Bob! Thumbs Up
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: September 30 2013 at 10:41pm
E) Miscellaneous Stuff - Part I: Heaters and Controllers

A heater is a necessary part of any nice Reef tank. The animals we keep all come from tropical waters, where water temperatures are around 72 - 78 degrees and tend to stay there all year long. It makes sense that we should keep our reef tanks around the same temperature. So, unless you live in a sauna, you are going to need a heater (at least in the wintertime)...

Heaters are relatively simple devices with one giant potential flaw - under the wrong circumstances, they can cook your tank. Problem is, the thermostat on the heater can fail; and when it does, Murphy's Law dictates it will most often fail stuck "on"... that means a heater that won't shut off when the temperature reaches the normal preset limit; it won't shut off when the temperature reaches dangerous levels; it just plain won't shut off...

And it doesn't take much to cook your goose, so to speak. 83 degrees will stress the more delicate corals; 85 will kill them - and a temp of 90 degrees sustained for more than an hour will most likely wipe out the entire tank, including fish. So, how do you prevent this from happening?

The most foolproof method is to use a controller to turn the heater on / off, instead of the heater relay. Use of a controller will pretty much guarantee you don't fry your tank. But controllers are expensive, and can be a little complicated to set up. Any other options?

Well, there are 2 schools of thought on how to minimize chances of overheating in lieu of using a controller. One line of advice is to use a lower wattage heater than required, or even a pair of them, to heat your tank. The concept being, if it goes bonkers it won't be strong enough to get the temp too high.

The other advice - the one I recommend and follow - is to use a slightly higher wattage heater - or even 2 - to heat the tank.

Why would this be a better way to go? Won't a big heater just cook the tank that much quicker?

Yes and no. When heaters fail with in the 'on' position, what has happened is that the contact relays have melted / fused together, creating a permanent electrical circuit which then prevents the heater from shutting off. IMO the reason this happens is precisely because the heater has been running too long / too often, the heat transfers down the glass tube into the area where the electronics reside... and the contacts fuse together. Ever touch a working heater, even underwater? The outside of that sucker gets hot. With a bigger heater (or 2) they heat the water so quickly that they don't stay 'on' nearly as long. The heat doesn't have as good a chance to transfer down the tube into the electronics. Plus, higher wattage heaters are generally larger (longer), meaning a greater physical distance from the heating element (in the bottom third of the heater tube)and the electronics (up near the top end of the heater). IMO that helps the electronics stay cooler even when the heater is running.

I can tell you that I either have a good idea, or just really good luck... because I have never had a heater get stuck 'on' in one of my setups - ever.

As for those controllers..? I often get asked, or see as a topic of discussion on the Forum, "Do I Need a Controller?"

The direct answer is NO - you do not 'need' a controller.

But they sure are a nice thing to have.

I'll expand my thoughts on controllers tomorrow...
 
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
 
Ok, it's tomorrow Wink
 
As I said last night, controllers really are a nice thing to have for that 'nice '
Reef tank.
 
But let's not get ahead of ourselves, here:
 
 - What is a controller and what does it do?
 
An aquarium controller is basically a small computer processor hooked together with a group of electrical outlets, electric switches, and electronic sensors to help monitor certain tank conditions and automatically perform certain tasks (such as turning lights on / off, heater on / off, topping off tank water, alerting you to a problem condition) based on the information the user inputs into the device; and depending on the switches / sensors / probes that have been linked to the device. Some of the more advanced controller systems have the abilty for remote programming / monitoring via a computer wireless network or even your smart phone.
 
 
 - Which controller is the best choice for me?
 
A lot of people go with the Apex Reef Controller by Neptune Systems. They are kind of the 'gold standard' right now as far as capability and programmabilty goes. They are one of the controllers that you can link to your laptop or smartphone, which is kind of cool and comes in handy if you are not home alot. You can even link a webcam to actually see your tank displayed, on your phone, in real time. But they aren't cheap - figure on spending around $500 to purchase new. And then possibly hundreds more for some of the 'extras' in terms of probes, sensors, etc.
 
Other companies, such as Digital Aquatics, Reef Angel and Tunze make controllers that are also pretty neat. And you can get the "Jr" or "lite" versions of most major controller models for around $200. They won't have all the 'bells & whistles' of the big boys, and they won't do everything the $500+ units can do... but they still can provide some peace of mind and handle most major tasks.
 
 
 - What do you recommend?
 
Here's what I think. If you can afford to get a controller, buy it. And remember, you can look for a used one without too much risk of it being a lemon.
 
As far as which one / how advanced (expensive) to go..?  Well...
 
First, if you are looking to set up a large 'nice' Reef Tank (150g or above) you are - quite frankly - already going to spend a boatload of money. Adding $700 - $800 for a cutting edge controller system is really not a huge purchase compared to the thousands you will be spending altogether. And you can look at this controller purchase as a type of 'insurance' against a disaster happening unnoticed that will wipe out that multi - thousand dollar investment. If I were shelling out $5K to put together a totally sweet 180g Reef I wouldn't hesitate to go with a filled-out Apex or similar. I'd think it was money well spent.
 
If you are looking at a small 'nice' Reef tank (say, under 50g) I think that a controller is more of a nice 'option' than a neccessity... and I wouldn't go the high-end model route, unless I was a tech geek / junkie who just wanted to have the coolest gadgets he could hook up to his nano tank. 
 
What about all of us in the middle? With that model 75 - 120g Reef tank we have been talking about for this thread?
 
I'd lean towards getting at least an entry-level unit to handle those basic chores like turing off the lighting, controlling the heater(s) so you don't fry the tank, maybe running an ATO...
 
Now, if you are wanting to go all high-end... well, that's fine, too. It's just not mandatory, IMO.
 
Myself, I run a DA Reefkeeper Lite 'Plus' setup on my 90g Reef. With it I can monitor & control temp, pH, and ORP levels. I can run an ATO off of it, it turns my lighting and heater on / off, and it has a total of 8 linked outlets for all my equipment. Not too bad for under $300 new (I got mine used). Now, it doesn't have wireless capability - and I can't link it to my phone; but, for me, I was OK with not needing those features.
 
In summary, a controller is a nice option to have - that becomes more of a neccessity depending on the value of your overall Reef tank investment.
 


Edited by BobC63 - October 01 2013 at 12:00pm
- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -

* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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