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How would you setup your refugiuim/sump?

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Hobby View Drop Down
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    Posted: February 10 2009 at 2:25pm
I'm in the process of setting up my very first reef.  I know there are several ways to setup a refugiuim/sump and I would like to hear how you would suggest setting one up and why?  The more details the better.  (Things like would you include a skimmer and where?  What type of filtration?  How many section?  What type of critters?  What type of algea?  Would you include rock?)  Any and all info would be appreciated!  Photos would be great also! 


Edited by Hobby - February 10 2009 at 2:31pm
210 gal Arowana tank

150 gal Gibberosa Moba tank

120 gal New World tank

90 gal Geo, Severum, Loach, Gar tank

90 gal Reef tank

65 gal Reef tank

95 gal Frag tank

and too many more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote vadryn Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 4:38pm
One of the hardest conversions is changing the standard FW mindset of filtration to that of SW.  Things that have caught me:
 
FW people talk 5x - 10x per hour for water circulation through your filter. 
 
SW people talk about have 20x - 30x per hour of water circulation, but only a fraction of that goes through the filtration (sump/refugium).  The rest is done with powerheads or closed-loop systems that just move the water.  It would not be bizarre to have a well-filtered FW tank to be running more water through the filter than a SW tank.  As I've toured tanks locally, some people run a filter sock as their only mechanical filtration, some run nothing at all. 
 
Even protien skimmers are debatable.  My understanding of a protien skimmer is that it's a filter that's designed to remove "stuff" that's generally too small to be removed via normal mechanical filtration.  It's so small because the organisms in the tank sequentially break down the material into smaller and smaller bits as they use it.  The arguement is that a good mature tank breaks it down enough that what's left is handled through the water changes.
 
In FW we do lots of water changes and lots of filtration, making a FW setup a somewhat "Open" system where it's regularly refreshed.  SW is much more closed with typically smaller and less frequent water changes due to the effectiveness of the ecosystem in a SW setup to deal with their own pollutants.  I think that helps explain why a SW tank takes so much longer to "mature" than a FW tank.
 
So - what size tank are you going to start?
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On mine the water drains from the tank, through the flex hose, to the back right side of the sump into a filter sock. The Protein Skimmer is in the same section and skims a portion of the water that comes out of the filter sock. From there the water flows through the slots in the divider and through the center section which is the refugium. I used a deep sand bed in the refugium and Chaetomorpha macro algae. You can see the Lights of America (LOA) lighting fixture in the picture. I had a few snails in here but no other clean up crew or fish. From there the water went over the first divider and under the second, which formed a bubble trap, and in to the return section. The return section was large enough to handle a day's worth of evaporation in the summer and accomodate a submersible pump. The sump had enough left over volume to hold the water that would drain down from the tank during a power outage. That would be the water above the level of the overflow as well as the water contained in the plumbing.
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Andreason Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 5:06pm
Very nice and tidy! BTW LOVE the paint color!!
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 5:16pm
Thanks!
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 7:15pm
Here are a couple of shots of my sump setup... a bit different from Mikes; I use a 54g Rubbermaid tote in place of the acrylic sump tank. And not as "pretty" looking - then again my pics show my sump after 6 months "in action" instead of spanking brand new (like Mikes Wink)
 
 
First section contains the overflow discharges (with filter socks to trap large particles), the heaters and the skimmer:
 
 
Second compartment contains the refugium and the return pump area. I use a LOA flo light fixture (like Mike); I also have a canister filter plumbed in to provide carbon filtration. I have several different macroalgae in the fuge - cheatomorpha, grape, feather and razor caulerpas, codium, and ulva lettuce. I also have 10 mangrove plants growing in there as well:
 
 
Here is a shot of how the entire sump looks inside the stand:
 
 
I would save to disagree with vadryn and IMO the use of a protein skimmer is not "debateable" - especially in reference to new hobbyists. A skimmer, along with a refugium, carbon filtration, frequent water changes, etc. are all means of maintaining acceptable water quality. I would not recommend that a new hobbyist forgo any of these measures.
 
I know there are those out there who successfully run "skimmerless" systems (Mark P. down south comes to mind) but keep in mind they are almost always seasoned veterans in the hobby, with many years of experience managing marine systems.
 
Personally, I am more a fan of "overkill"... a good skimmer for removal of organics, a well-stocked fuge for nitrate / phosphate / hair algae control, plentiful live rock for nitrate reduction, a method of chemical filtration such as carbon and / or pO4 remval media, frequent water changes etc...
 
IMO all those things are "insurance" that will help ensure a healthy and stable enviroment for your livestock for years to come.
 
 
 
 
- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -

* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thefu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 7:50pm
Mike, your refugium setup is almost identical to mine. I bought mine from another reefer, but I think Marine Aquatics set the whole thing up for him. I love how organized the system is with its different chambers and the such. On mine, the spillover into the bubble trap has a "comb" and hair algae often collects there and I think works like some sort of turf scrubber.
 
I definitely recommend this set up for a noob. I have it and in just a matter of a few days I could understand how the whole thing works, how to adjust the skimmer, change the sock, cull the chaeto, etc. After setting mine back up from the other owner, I "recharged" the pods with a new bottle I bought from somewhere online.
 
Oh, the other thing I added to mine was a float valve that is connected to two 7-gallon water containers for top off. I put this in the far left chamber along with my PH probe and heater.


Edited by thefu - February 10 2009 at 7:53pm
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 7:54pm
Eric at Marine Aquatics built mine too.
 
Mike


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote thefu Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 8:07pm
funny...small world...mine runs a different skimmer though...i think its an ASM.
 
Not to offend probably tens of people here in the club, but I don't know that I would feel completely secure entrusting a rubbermaid container with all my $ of livestock, emotional and time investment. I am not saying that they fail more often than a "real" refugium, but they seem pretty thin, I have cracked quite a few around the house under normal circumstances for which they were designed, and it just wouldn't give me a warm fuzzy.
 
Again, I am sure hundreds of hobbyists use this method successfully, this is just my perspective.
 
 
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 8:19pm
KISS
Simple 40 gal breeder tank under a 120 housing two of my favorite fish, Mr. Ray and Mr. Bat. Worked like a charm until I gave it all up and moved south. Now I have no Refugium, nor skimmer in any of my tanks.  The key is to set it up with the help of a seasoned hobbyist and I have had plenty of help from several of those over the years.Wink
 Like Vadryn said there is so much life in a reef tank that eats everything that would ordinarily be thought of as pollution, that a little AC now and then is all that's needed to keep the tank doing well. I don't see water changes as getting rid of excess, but more like adding in some elements that have become depleted.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 8:30pm

Bob do you have anything seperating your refugi area and your return pump water? 

You all are awesome!  Photos's too!  Thank you!   

210 gal Arowana tank

150 gal Gibberosa Moba tank

120 gal New World tank

90 gal Geo, Severum, Loach, Gar tank

90 gal Reef tank

65 gal Reef tank

95 gal Frag tank

and too many more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote BobC63 Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 8:45pm
Yes, there is an eggcrate partition between the fuge and the return pump. The eggcrate has window screening over it so no bits of macroalgae can get into the return area and possibly clog the pump. Here is a better picture where you can see the partition:
 
 
And I don't disagree with "thefu" that a tote is thinner than an acrylic tank. I, too, have cracked a few of them by dropping them. But, then again, I have cracked a few tanks by dropping them as well... I guess you just have to be careful...
 
 
 
- My Current Tank: 65g Starfire (sitting empty for 2+ years) -

* Marine & Reef tanks since 1977 *
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Hobby Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 9:17pm
This is exactly what I wanted to see.  Differant options with lots of detail!  Thank you again....ALL of you.  Smile 

Edited by Hobby - February 10 2009 at 9:18pm
210 gal Arowana tank

150 gal Gibberosa Moba tank

120 gal New World tank

90 gal Geo, Severum, Loach, Gar tank

90 gal Reef tank

65 gal Reef tank

95 gal Frag tank

and too many more
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote MadReefer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 10 2009 at 10:50pm
Beautiful sump Mike.
Nice simple one Mark.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mike Savage Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: February 11 2009 at 8:04am
Thanks. It worked very well for me. I would use the same design again.
 
Mike


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