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Looking for biodiversity. Help needed

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KeoDog View Drop Down
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    Posted: December 23 2003 at 8:35am
My 5 month old 300g tank is just not doing as well as I would like. About half of the corals I put in it are declining and the others do fine. I am hoping I could get a little live sand from a bunch of different tanks to seed it with so I can increase the biodiversity of the tank. Anyone out there willing to help me out? Healthy tanks only please. (no aptasia, bryopsis or flatworms)

Edited by KeoDog
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Danny Lueck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny Lueck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2003 at 9:18am
Well I do have my Bow front which is in great shape. I would be willing to get you some.   
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Danny Lueck View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Danny Lueck Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2003 at 9:19am
OH I am worm free.
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Marcus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2003 at 10:32am
Danny, why are you worm free?
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KeoDog View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2003 at 9:58pm
OK I got some subtrate from Danny. Thanks. Is anyone else willing to give me some.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jbruse Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 23 2003 at 11:50pm
Hey Kevin you got some let me know when you need it.  This would give me an excuse to finally come see your tank anyway.

Edited by jbruse
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote STYLASTER Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2003 at 5:43am
If your having problems with a few of your corals not doing well
i doubt it`s a lack of bio-diversity, but it never hurts to have
more. What are you water conditions like? P.h., Calcium,
Magnesium, nitrate, etc. which corals are not doing well? sps,
lps, or softies? or is it kind of a mix of all of them? it could also
have something to do with flow inside the tank.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2003 at 6:47am
I think it is the newness of the tank as no live rock was used. To answer your questions the parameters are as follow. ph=8.2, calcium=440, magnesium=1320, alkalinity=12dkh, nitrate=0, phosphate=0 corals doing well include sps, lps, softies. Corals not doing well include sps, lps, softies just different varieties. Temp stable at 76 degrees. Lights are 4 175w ushio 10k and 4 3' uri super actintics. Circulation is very good using a mag 36 which directs the water through 7 different inlets. Surface agitation is very good. I haven't measured for copper but hermits and snails are doing great.

Edited by KeoDog
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Marcus View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2003 at 10:12am
Keodog - maybe its that shallow sand bed. hehe... Just teasing...
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2003 at 11:24am
Yea, Marcus, Your probably right. Thats why I'm trying to get donations of sand so it will become deep.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote ewaldsreef Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 24 2003 at 1:03pm
I think that adding corals a little more slowly may be the key. I have personally experanced this with my tank. Good luck.
Contact me for professional aquarium maintenance and localy grown coral frags. [URL=http://www.aquatitranquility.com][/URL]

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2003 at 3:05pm
I agree that's what I plan to do is add more life/sand and then just give it time. Anyone else have any substrate they would like to offer?
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2003 at 4:26pm
Hi, Kevin! I have a ton of biodiversity in our tank. I have set up a
tank, using corals to cycle it. There are no biodiversity predators in
the tank right now. There are soooo many amphipods and copepods
and worms and crawly shell-less snail things and little brittle star
things and these weird little microscopic anemone-like things (you
can see so many more cool things in your sand when you use a little
kids spy glass gadget! ). I am trying to find the perfect fish to add to
this reef.....I can't decide what to put in it. It is so easy to feed the
sun polyps without fish....
   You're first post caught me off guard, though. I didn't dare offer
any biodiversity because of your request to not have any aptasias or
bubble algae. Don't aptasia spores live a long time? What if you get
some sand from someone that has peppermints and emerald crabs?
And then the dormant spores hatch?
We got our first spores from a prominent club member, one of our
cutest, as a matter of fact. At that time, I was upset. But now, I don't
care. I love our peppermints and emerald crabs!
Anyway, this tank has been set up for a few months, started with
sand from a well-established tank and fed phytoplanton and rotifers
and baby brine shrimp daily. If you look up biodiversity in the phone
book, our number is there....You're welcome to have some, but I can
only offer the GOOD biodiversity and the .........OTHER good
biodiversity!
How did aptasia get such a bad rap anyway?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2003 at 4:39pm

Originally posted by Suzy Suzy wrote:

You're welcome to have some, but I can
only offer the GOOD biodiversity and the .........OTHER good
biodiversity!
How did aptasia get such a bad rap anyway?

A very good point, and a very good question as well.

Adam

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2003 at 4:43pm
Keo, I would give you some of my sand, but its only 3 weeks old.

Suzy & Adam, I have heard of aptasia tanks used like a refugia to clean up water from particulates. In the wild aptasias live in channels and places of moving current. I have never used them for that purpose though. I bought some caulerpa once that had some aptasia in it and it migrated into my main tank so I would be too affraid to use them in a sump. I would only assume that they got a bad rap from ability to multiply very fast and sting other corals.
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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 26 2003 at 9:31pm
Adding my 2 cents worth:
Since we know what your tank looks like from the posted images, I'd say the problem with declining coral in your 5 month old tank is the sheer size of it and the lack of life in general, not just the life in the sand. The answer in my opinion is to feed the coral with pleanty of plankton.

In my experience (check out my 10 gal. July Tank of the Month) the best way to increase a reef aquarium's growth is to feed it. I don't remember if I fully described it but I fed it 3-4 times the recommended amount of food. I gave that tank to my niece. My brother Rodney recently told me that McKenna's tank is doing better than his tank. (Her picture with the tank is in the Reef Tour 2003 gallery) I was adding about a pint of phytoplankton daily. That would be 30 pints (7.5 gallons) of phyto for your 300 gal tank! If you think about it, it doesn't help to add more organisms if there isn't enough for all of them to eat.

The only reason I can figure that people started saying that the reef is a nutrient desert is not because of a lack of nutrients, but rather a lack of measurable nutrients. Nutrient readings are low on the reef because nutrients are eaten as soon as they are made available!

The home prepared coral and fish food discussed by Jake and Adam at the last meeting is one of the best ways to accomplish feeding. The various commercial products like Velvet Green, Rotifers, Black Powder and Marine Snow are also helpful.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2003 at 10:53am
Mark, I had pretty much came to the same conclusion as you. That is why I have been target feeding all my corals with cyclopeeze. I started doing this the same time I initiated this post. The tank is mainly sps. It looks like it might be helping but is still to soon to say for sure.

Suzy, I do not care about bubble algae but I want to minimize the chance of getting flat worms or bropsis. What you said about aptasia makes sense and I would like to get some of your sand if that ok.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2003 at 3:17pm
What is bropsis?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 28 2003 at 3:31pm
I think Keodog meant Bryopsis plumosa which is a type of algae that is very hard to get rid of.
check out this link:
http://www.globaldialog.com/~jrice/algae_page/bryopsis.htm

Edited by Marcus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 29 2003 at 5:48am
Yea, what Marcus said. (I did spell it right in the first post)

Edited by KeoDog
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
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"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
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