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Pics of DSB that delivers calcium?

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Mark Peterson View Drop Down
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    Posted: November 29 2003 at 9:40pm
Look at the neat organisms growing since only March in this 75+ gal. system which has no calcium reactor but uses a very deep DSB of Utah Oolitic Sand, an RDP Refugium, an algae scrubber, a skimmer, and four 55W PC fluorescent lights.
This is the tank of a WMAS member, FS, whom I met by accident at Aquatic Dreams today. (BTW - Aquatic Dreams IS as good as everyone says.)

Camera flash illuminates the DSB but makes the pic yellower than actual:


The algae scrubber is extremely bright. It's sitting above the refugium:



Excellent Halimeda (and hard coral) growth with no calcium reactor!


Excellent Organ Pipe coral, a difficult coral for most tanks, again, in the absense of a calcium reactor:


This sps is growing at the bottom of the tank!


These are some of the happy fish of this tank that was also on this years Reef Tour:


To me this aquarium shows that a unique growth of coral and algae which require major amounts of Calcium is possible with a deep DSB and without MH lighting!! I theorize that the deep areas of this sand bed are natural calcium reactors.
What do y'all think?
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2003 at 10:17pm

That is indeed a very nice looking tank!  What does his pH, alkalinity and calcium levels run in his tank?  No additives what-so-ever?  How much water does he change and how often?

The science to back your theory: 
CaCO3 is normally supersaturated in our tanks.  NSW is supersaturated by about 3 times!  This means that chemically, the Ca++ and CO2-- ions floating around in the water what to react together and form CaCO3 (aragonite or calcite).  The degree of supersaturation is dependent upon both the Ca++ and CO3-- concentration and water temperature.  Temperature should be more or less constant throughout the tank so it can be neglected.  In order for aragonite (CaCO3) to dissolve there needs to be a lower then equalibrium level of either Ca++ or CO3-- (or both) ions.  This can happen in low pH areas where there is an abundance of H+ or CO2- ions.  The denitrification reaction is favored in such areas and one of the byproducts of the denitrification reaction is CO2.  The reaction from there is just like in a calcium reactor.  The only crux in the picture is how fast can these molecules get from the bulk water into the dsb and back out.  For many people it's not fast enough to provide the needed Ca and CO3.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crazy-sps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 29 2003 at 10:31pm

Mark, that is a good looking tank.  If the DSB is producing enough calcium to sustain hard corals, without the addition of any additives, then I would assume that he/she is going through substrate like crazy.  Maybe I am in left field here, but why wouldn't this person put a reactor on it?  Or MH?  If this tank is doing this good w/o those elements, think of what it could do with them.  It is a very nice looking tank.  Congrats to the owner!

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Guests Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 1:54pm
Thanks Mark for shooting the pictures of my tank, and thanks everyone for the compliments on the tank. Here are a few of the parameters for my tank. pH - 8.3, alkalinity - 4.6, calcium - 420, Sp.G. - 1.024, temp. - 80. I do use "Reef Builder" mixed with my top of water and add calcium to keep the levels where they are at. I set the tank up with the idea of keeping it simple and have tried to stick with that. The tank remains incredibly stable now. I did have problems with high pH until I switched to the reef builder to maintain the aklalinity. I do change out about 10 - 15 gallons of water a month. Thanks again.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Travis Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 3:39pm
Very nice tank Spack.  What's the secret to keeping that Halimeda Plant looking that pretty?  I just added some to my display and it's not looking to good.
 
Mark, there are many successful reefs that do not use a calcium reactor.  After the calcium demand gets high or if your looking for a very stable way to maintain calcium/alk then calcium reactors seem to be well worth it.  With or without a DSB.


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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote crazy-sps Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 4:30pm
I take back my previous statement about getting a reactor.  Those levels that Spack posted are very good.  I'm jealous of those consistent numbers without having a reactor.
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 5:54pm

A reactor is not necessary to maintain constant high calcium and alkalinity values.  Contrary to what Mark orginally posted, Spack is adding both calcium and alkalinity in the form of "Reef Builder" and "he adds calcium".  I'd contend that it's not his sand bed supplying these elements, but his additives. 

Back to the reactor question.  Crazy-sps,  if you have a moderate to high calcium demand tank then the most economical way to supply calcium/alkalinity in a BALANCED fashion is almost always a calcium reactor.  If you don't care about the ionic composition in your tank, then it's pretty cheap to just use "buffer" (or baking soda) and turbo calcium in an UNBALANCED fashion.  I prefer a balanced approach and would suggest that route.

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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 6:18pm
The reason I made such a big deal of Spacks stony coral and calcarous algae (halimeda and coralline) growth is that without a calcium reactor the growth he described to me is not possible. At least not in any of the hundreds of tanks I've seen. He told me that the halimeda sends out new shoots that grow at the rate of one blade per day. Those are not small blades either! It has amazing vibrant green color. That is an amazing tank. Spack also has a beautiful "swollen" fungia that travels! I call it swollen because at first glance I thought it was a purple tipped LT anemone!



Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Marcus Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 6:41pm
Jon, I agree with you completely. I don't see a ton of calcifying coral in that tank from the pic. If there was a lot of it, then I think it would be a different story. Are you going to get a skimmer for your 125?

Edited by Marcus
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 7:06pm
Never mind.

Edited by Mark Peterson
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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 7:42pm

Well I'll be darned!  I just reread your initial post and you never did say he wasn't adding additives.  I must have just read that into your post .

*Never mind too*



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Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote jfinch Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: December 02 2003 at 7:45pm

Originally posted by Marcus Marcus wrote:

Are you going to get a skimmer for your 125?

pictures coming soon to a DIY forum near you...

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