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Bryguy514 
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 Topic: RO system
Posted: November 21 2003 at 9:33am |
Do any of you guys have suggestions on what kinda of RO system I should buy for my 125 Gal and have you purchased any off ebay?
Bryan
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 10:15am |
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Are you aware of the Kold-Steril system that wastes NO water and leaves some good elements in the water?
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Bryguy514
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 12:53pm |
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I have not heard of that.
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SSpargur
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 1:38pm |
I got mine off of eBay from theh2oguro I highly recommend them. Their website is www.airwaterice.com
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Sean Spargur
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WhiteReef
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 2:04pm |
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Where did you get the filters for it? I have a setup that I could modify and start to use the filters.
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Bryguy514
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 3:25pm |
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What is everyones opinion on RO verses Kold-steril?
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rfoote
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 3:45pm |
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Bryan - Do some searches here and maybe on reefcentral on the two. Like everything else in this hobby you are going to find very strong feelings/experiences both ways.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 4:01pm |
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The Kold-Steril media can be purchased at some online stores for about $50. I did a web search last time I needed the media. It lasts for 5000 gallons and that saves 20,000 gallons of water, water which goes down the drain with an R.O. unit.
Experienced opinions are going to be hard to come by. The interesting thing is that three of the most experienced hobbyists in the club have used it and find it works great.
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crazy-sps
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 4:15pm |
Isn't the media alumina? Or something like that? How long would $50 worth last? Has anyone ever done a TDS on a Kold-Sterile system before?
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jfinch
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 5:26pm |
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My vote's for RO. A TDS on kold-sterile would show the same as your tap water since the system does not remove any of the hardness (calcium and magnesium). It removes organics, chlorine, solid particulants and heavy metals. My concern with the system is there is no way for a hobbiest to know when the media is spent or if it's even working, since there's no low-budget way to analyze the filtered water. Just my opinion.
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crazy-sps
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 7:06pm |
So, if someone changed the media once a month, or very frequently, then would Kold Sterile work okay? I do not know what the normal numbers of Ca and Mg are in tap water but they can't be as high as we would like our tanks to be. However, running a Kold Sterile system by changing the media frequently would probably cost a lot more than a little higher water bill. I have never used Kold Sterile but I am willing to check it out. Poly-Bio-Marine's website does not say how to make these unit's, but the cheapest costs $300. Is there some way to make these without spending $300? Is Ca and Mg the only elements that are left in the water? Does it remove 100% of the metals and other "toxins"?
On another thought, what would happen if someone just went to Lowe's and got some in-line carbon and sediment filters and ran tap water to their tank?
Edited by crazy-sps
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Aquarium Creations
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 7:13pm |
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i just bought a 110 gal a day 6 stage r/o unit from the factory direct and payed $135.00 thats cheap comes with everything and a sink mount and container aswell contact me for me for info...
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Aquarium Maintenance,Consulting,Custom Built Glass Aquariums Rimless/Euro,24Hr Emergency Service 8015485201 Www.UtahAquariumDoctors.com [email protected]
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jfinch
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Posted: November 21 2003 at 10:13pm |
I personally think the idea behind Kold-Sterile is ok. I don't really know exactly how poly-filters work, but if their literature is to be believed, no they don't remove all the heavy metals. For example, they will remove copper, which is probably the most probable heavy metal in our water due to all the copper tubing, down to something like 30 ppb. That is a very low number, but I think ro can do it too. DI can for sure.
Calcium and magnesium are indeed very high in most water on the around here, over 100 ppm. But who's to say they are present in the same ratio as seawater? Does your tank really need a constant addition of excess magnesium? In reality, it most likely doesn't matter. Tap water might be just fine. I just feel more comfortable using RO.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 22 2003 at 7:20am |
To answer some questions: Only a small portion of the media is hydrated alumina. It removes phospate and silica. There is a forum member that has provided this media to several of us for free.  One way to determine if it's still working is to drink the water. The water has great taste, in fact that is the original purpose for the system. It is a top quality drinking water purification system. One person I helped with setting up the KS system uses it for his tank and drinking water too. The media is stated to last for 5000 gallons. That's a lot of top-off and water changes. One to four years for most of us. Changing the media monthly would be unecessary. (BTW - Poly-Bio-Marine is kind of weird regarding selling their media to someone that doesn't use their equipment, so I buy it from other online retailers for my DIY unit made from OEM parts.) I've put many of these units together. It uses the same sequence of three canisters as the typical R.O./D.I. unit, minus the R.O. membrane. I made these for a total of $130 ready to go. After that the ongoing cost is only $50 every 5000 gallons. On the other hand, the cost to replace D.I. media, prefilters, carbon and R.O. membrane every 5000 gallons is $200 or more!  Crazy-sps asks, "On another thought, what would happen if someone just went to Lowe's and got some in-line carbon and sediment filters and ran tap water to their tank?" If you get me started or check previous posts (re: tapwater), you will find that I have become a proponent of simplifying the hobby and that I believe tap water works just fine so long as you have algae to uptake the nutrients and herbivores to eat the algae or use a refugia where algae is periodically harvested. Check out my July Tank of the Month to see how tapwater can grow a beautiful tank.  Not only is Kold-Steril a step up from tapwater for tank and drinking, but, it doesn't waste 20,000 gallons of water. In our desert climate, that is a heck of a lot of water! 
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crazy-sps
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Posted: November 22 2003 at 10:23am |
Jon, in response to your question about excessive additions of Mg to our tanks; Magnesium Chloride is what I add to my tank by means of Tech-M from Kent. I try to run my Mg level about three times my Ca level. So about 1200 ppm or so. Even if too much is added, it will just precipitate out anyway.
Mark, I took a look at your tank in the tank of the month. Congratulations on such a good looking tank. I do, however, feel bad for the clam that is gaping. It appears to me that your interests are in soft corals. It has been my experience that sps corals are much more sensitive to harsh water qualities. If you removed the soft corals and replaced them with sps corals, I do not think it would look so nice. I think they would die very quickly. So for my application, tap water is not an acceptable solution. You did not reply to my question about using carbon and sediment filters in-line though. Have you had any experience with this?
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jfinch
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Posted: November 22 2003 at 10:54am |
crazy-sps, 1200 ppm is good. NSW is a little closer to 1300 ppm, but there's probably not a lot of difference as far as the livestock is concerned between 1200 and 1400 ppm. How often do you add? How fast does your Mg concentration drop? Why would you want all your good carbonate (Alkaninity) precipitating with the excess Mg? It's can become like a dog chasing it's tail. FWIW, the Mg concentration in my little tank has not really changed in the past year (mix of soft and hard). It appears that the food and other additives I dose provide enought, or my Mg just isn't being depleted. Coralline algae can be a large consumer of Mg and I have plenty of coralline too. Where do you think your Mg is going?
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crazy-sps
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Posted: November 22 2003 at 11:02am |
Jon, okay you got me.  I am going off of what I had learned from LFS. I was under the impression that its not going to harm anything though. I was led to believe that calcifying corals needed Mg to help process the Ca. I do not know where the excess would go to. Where does it go? This makes me question the information that I had learned.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 22 2003 at 11:04am |
Actually there are three sps frags, three frogspawn and two cup coral/pagoda in that tank, but perhaps the large mushroom leather takes center stage and distracts from the rest. The sps almost doubled in size in the five months I had the tank and the frogspawn is huge relative to the end of a pencil tip size skeleton buds. I gave the tank to my niece and haven't seen it for almost three months so I cannot say what has happened to growth since then. Since you mentioned my gaping clam either you know clams or you read other posts about that clam having met it's demise due in part to the natural low light flatworm treatment. But I did eliminate the huge flatworm infestation without the use of medication. The clam always looked like that so at least I was keeping it alive until the 3 weeks of low light and I got lazy and stopped feeding greenwater! Regarding sediment and carbon filtering, I have not used it, but a friend that worked for MSM used that method for over four years on his tank which worked just fine. He moved away to school and I don't know how to contact him for comments. I used R.O./D.I. for 4+ years and then switched to Kold-Steril for 3 years and then tapwater for the five months I had the 10 gal. Tapwater is what I used when first in the hobby and when I didn't know very well how to control algae. The result was my infamous ugly greenhaired mermaid. It just seems to me that the hobby in general in an effort to play it safe is overly concerned about purity. Maybe it's a holdover from the days of bleached dead coral sleleton decoration. Some of the best hobbyist tanks are not treated like "cleanrooms", if you know what I mean. I need to be careful not to give the impression that I feel someone is wrong to use the purist water possible. I'm just a thrifty kind of person and I just want people, especially beginners, to realize that they can have a nice reef aquarium for less $$/less wasted water.
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Mark Peterson
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Posted: November 22 2003 at 11:10am |
Hey Jon, we are "neck to neck" on number of posts! I hope there is a prize when we get to 1000.
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crazy-sps
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Posted: November 22 2003 at 11:19am |
Mark, are you talking about Brian that used to work for MSM? Have you ever seen his tank? Did you think it looked good?
Frogspawn, or Euphyllia paradivisa, is not an SPS and can grow anywhere. I think you missed the point of my post, though. I was complimenting your tank, not trying to argue. That is great that the sps that you have has grown well for you. I do not think that is the norm. I hope it continues to flourish.
I wonder if the flouride is going to do anything to tanks that use tap water? Any ideas?
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