| Author |
 Topic Search  Topic Options
|
kgwilliams 
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
 Post Options
 Thanks(0)
 Quote  Reply
 Topic: Green finger leather
Posted: July 02 2006 at 11:02pm |
Here is a picture of my green finger leather. I've had it for about 4 months and it still won't open its polyps. It's right in the path of water flow and I just increased my lighting to 160w of PC, two days ago. My PH is 8, Nitrates and Nitrites are at 0 and ammonia is at 0 too. I don't have any other tests but I do add iodine, calcium, strontium, and other reef supplements. Any ideas?
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
 |
Lyscer
Guest
Joined: May 20 2005
Location: Layton
Status: Offline
Points: 1565
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 02 2006 at 11:04pm |
What's your salinity at? Do you test salinity with hydrometer or refractometer? It looks like your mushrooms are happy 
|
|
Jake Pehrson
Admin Group
Joined: June 13 2002
Location: Murray, UT
Status: Offline
Points: 4279
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 03 2006 at 1:04am |
I have two thoughts:
#1 It may be too much water flow for the coral to open.
#2 It may be what you are adding (not what you are not adding). What other types of reef supplements are you using? I would stick with testing calcium, alkalinity (and pH) and adding supplement to keep them in line. I like iodine, but not as a regular supplement. I would try staying away from most everything else with maybe a couple of rare exceptions (magnesium).
|
|
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 03 2006 at 8:19am |
What coral are upstream from the sinularia?
Have you ever looked at it at night?
Have you ever moved it to a new spot?
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member 
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 03 2006 at 6:31pm |
Here are some more pictures, hopefully it will help you get a better understanding of how my tank is layed out. (I know, it needs alot of work) Anyways, I also add "vitamin and amino acids, and marine trace elements". I don't really know what they are supposed to do, I am just doing like my LFS suggested. I don't think anything is close enough to bother it.
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 03 2006 at 11:36pm |
That helps a lot.
As Jake said, it's what you are adding that is causing the problem. There is way too much good stuff going into your tank.
Let me put it another way. If I was constantly surrounded by the richest foods that I could eat anytime, I would get pretty sick of all that rich food and I would even become sick. I would need to change my diet, reduce the intake of rich foods and even go on a fast to get all that excess out of my body. Too much of a good thing can be harmful.
The best intentions of some LFS sales people are not always the best for my tank. They want my money. It's their job to get some of my money. They can only make a living if I spend my money there. Their making a living is more important than your little aquarium. If I come to them and say, my tank is not looking so good, are they going to tell me that I have done too much, or that the stuff they sold me is the problem, or that I have loved it to death? I think not. What they are going to do is sell me yet another product to make it "better".
Now, I'm going to tell it like I see it. Caution: Bumpy road ahead.
- The color and look of the rock is not good. For the age of this tank it should have areas of bright purple and pink coralline algae, at least 20% coverage on rock and glass.
- The rock has a dark bio-film over almost every part of it. This is the result of a combination of things, two of which are too high of a concentration of nutrients in the water and the tank is often too hot.
- The Xenia is going downhill fast. It's tips are burned. You could come home tomorrow after work and it could be gone.
- The mushrooms have edges that indicate, at best, irritation and at worst, chemical burning. The entire margin of a mushroom should be thick and smooth, not thin and ragged.
- The Green Star Polyps are hanging on to life, trying to make it against the surrounding chemical soup.
- Adding chemicals without knowing whether they are needed or even what they do, is not good. Does the tank really need added amino acids, vitamins, iodine, trace elements, etc.? These chemicals cause problems when overdosed. Many of these needed components are produced naturally in a healthy tank.
Sorry. I know this is hard. I hope you can forgive me for my harsh opinion. I really want to help. If you want your tank to turn around and you want it to become a beautiful piece of living art, please give some serious thought to what I have said. I promise that what you learn to do to get your tank looking better will not be difficult. (and please listen to the LFS with a more skeptical and discriminating ear.)
- The first thing is to completely stop adding any chemicals.
- Only food and RO topoff water should be added right now.
- Do a 10-20% water change now and again in a month.
- Add 1/2 pound of good quality Activated Carbon
- Macroalgae like Chaetomorpha may not do well at this point, but try a little anyway, if you can get some and the Yellow Tang will stay away from it, or place it in one of those HOB filters with a light over it.
Edited by Mark Peterson - July 04 2006 at 12:38am
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 12:33am |
Okay, Mark, first of all, no offense taken. I don't need anyone to beat around the bush. I know my tank looks like crap. That's why I have been turning to you guys. It's my own fault that I am just now getting you guys some pictures. I didn't realize that there could be to much good stuff, but I understand now that you put it the way you did.
What do I do?! I knew the xenia was doing bad, because it hasn't spread and the other stalk already died about a week ago. I thought the GSP was doing ok because it is spreading but I know it could do better. I didn't realize that my mushrooms looked bad, but now that you point out the edges, I see what you mean.
I did go buy some snails the other day. Not near enough of them but I wanted to make sure I could keep these alive before I bought more, I only got four of them, but so far so good.
How do I get this brown crap off my rock!? I just want a pretty tank like you guys have! I could just cry! If my tank crashes I will be in the hospital! Oh, and don't worry, I will be more than skeptical!
Please help guys! I can't handle a crash!
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 12:36am |
|
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 12:02pm |
Okay, I did a five gallon water change about a week ago, and I haven't added anything since then. But I am going to do another one today. I am not adding anything else until you guys tell me to. Would someone please explain how to use carbon? I know there is carbon in the filter that goes in my biowheel thing but other than that I don't know what to do. My protein skimmer has a place for it but it didn't come with any instructions on how to do it. I am going to try to get you a picture so you understand. Should I be skimming right now?
I know nothing about microalgae. Can I order it? Can I put it in my main display, because I don't have a refugium.
As for your second batch of questions: I have a piece of plexiglass cut to fit over the top of my tank. But it just lays on top, so I wouldn't call it a lid. I just needed it to help with evaporation and to keep the salt creep off my lighting.~I feed two cubes of brine shrimp every other day. And a little Zoplan and PhytoPlan about once a week. (Sometimes I feed flake instead of the brine) I'll get back to you on the Alk and Calc. My mom is going to Tulsa today and I'm having her pick me up some tests, since thats the closest place to get one and it's two hours away.
As far as the lighting goes, I had a 96w PC by it's self. Then when I upgraded I just added another 64w of PC. The first day it was only on for a couple hours. Today is only the 3rd day so I am going to do like you said and turn them off in a little bit. Hopefully they haven't gotten to burnt in the last couple of days. 
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 12:08pm |
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=7928&cm_mmc=LiveAquaria_DFS_Links-_-Fish_Supplies-_-LiveAquaria_Gen_Page-_-Protein_Skimmers&ref=3969&subref=AA&N=2004+113771
Hopefully this takes you to my protein skimmer. I just copy and pasted the address.  The only difference between this one and mine is that mine isn't a PRO and mine has a bigger collection cup. It came with a bag of carbon but it doesn't tell me where to put it.
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 3:46pm |
The AC for the HOB filter is placed in a mesh bag. I place AC in the center of a piece of bridal veil material gathered like a pony tail with an elastic. If it's bunched loose, it can slid down into the chamber.
The use of AC on a protien skimmer is just to reduce the bad smell where the air escapes the collection cup. If you can't smell it, theres no need to bother.
Macroalgae, not microalgae. Caulerpa, Chaetomorpha, Dictyota, Sargassum, Kelp, etc. These decorative alga are pretty and useful. Look around for Caulerpa and Cheatomorpha. Maybe your LFS can get some.
Covering the top to keep water in also keeps air out. This seriously compromises the health of the tank. It's called "gas exchange". It has to do with the release of CO2 and the input of O2 into the tank water. Raising the light fixture even an inch or two will keep it cleaner. Cutting the plastic to fit the area of the light will save salt spray/creep but also allow air to reach more of the water surface.
Cut back to one cube of frozen every other day and feed a small pinch of flake on the alternate day.
Stop the Zoo and Phytoplan feeding until further notice. This is another thing along with the chemicals that has been buiding up in the tank.
Now I can be absolutely certain that you should never trust that LFS again. I'm assuming you had your mom get them from Tulsa because they don't stock either of those test kits! Did you ask her to look for the Salifert brand?
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 5:28pm |
Okay whats an HOB? Well at least I have some carbon handy. I'm going to try to order som mAcroalgae.  There's still a few inches around where my filters are that are open to the air, but I will scoot out the plexiglass.
Don't worry Mark, they will not get any of my money ever again! You are right though, they don't keep any alk or cal tests there at all! Which is part of the reason why I didn't know I ever needed them! I had to send my mom to a place called Ultimate Reefs, she got them, but I won't be able to get you any results til tonight.
I did the water change. So we will see . . . .
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 5:29pm |
|
Oh, and thanks so much Mark, for helping me. I would be so screwed right now, if it weren't for you guys!
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
Ryan Thompson
Guest
Joined: April 11 2006
Location: Lehi
Status: Offline
Points: 3546
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 04 2006 at 8:18pm |
|
HOB is a Hang On Back filter. I have a HOB refugium and its the best thing I ever did. I love Chaeto! The stuff is amazing in many ways. I would recommend it in the long run. If you are worried about the looks of macroalgae then I would suggest Halimeda. It is a prettier form of algae. I personally think Chaeto is ugly but that's why I have my HOB refugium. MY chaeto loves it there! Hope your tank gets better and hope what I said helps you out.
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 05 2006 at 7:37pm |
|
Okay here are my test results for alk and calc. For Alk, I got 20 dKH or 358 ppm KH, and for Calc, I got 360 mg/l ppm. I hope I did the test right, how do these numbers sound? The test kit didn't really explain what I wanted the levels to be. No Mark, I didn't tell them to get that kind, because I knew they would only have one type. I'm just glad they had them!
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 06 2006 at 12:05am |
A dKH reading of 20 is twice as high as it should be. 8-14 is the good range. Did you check it with a retest?
360 ppm Ca is within the 350-450 desired range.
Lowering the Alk is something best left to time, and a water change and more time.
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 06 2006 at 6:57pm |
No I didn't retest because I wasn't sure if that was a crazy number to come up with. I will retest it now though. So just wait and keep doing water changes, how often? How long will it take to turn this problem around? I mean, would I be better off just swiching out the rock with new rock? I mean it's just hard for me to believe that this brown crap will disappear, and then all the pretty stuff will grow.
Oh and as if I don't have enough problems with this tank, now I'm noticing quite a few apastia(?) anemones. There are a few right in between some of my polyps. What should I do to get rid of these little pests?
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
Mark Peterson
Paid Member
Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 07 2006 at 8:03am |
The amount of time it takes is dependent on all the things that make an aquarium healthy, water condition and movement, lighting and the presence of beneficial organisms. I see some coralline algae spots on some of the rock. Watch for the brown to go away and the coralline to spread as you follow our suggestions. It could also be helpful to call me to discuss or pm me your number so I can call you. Weekends are best. There is so much more information that can be communicated quickly and effeciently in a phone call.
Peppermint Shrimp are the best, first line of defense for Aiptasia. Get two of them.
|
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244 Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 07 2006 at 4:48pm |
So, what do you think about me taking the rock out and scrubbing the stuff off of it? I wouldn't do it all at once, just a few pieces at a time. Do you think it would grow back, even though I've stopped adding all that stuff? If I was to just order some new uncured rock, would it be safe to add it to my tank? I added all of the rock I have now, while I had fish. I wish that stupid LFS guy would have explained "curing" to me when I bought that rock! I was reading up on live rock and I didn't do anything right! No wonder I'm n the position I'm in!
Will the peppermint shrimps get along with my skunk shrimp? What about nudibranches?
I have this purple/brown stuff all over my glass. I clean it off and it comes back within a couple days. And for some reason there's a bunch of little bubbles stuck to it. Is this just another consequence of my actions? lol
Edited by kgwilliams - July 08 2006 at 12:03am
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
kgwilliams
Guest
Joined: November 26 2005
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 677
|
Post Options
Thanks(0)
Quote Reply
Posted: July 08 2006 at 10:49pm |
Hey Mark, what do you think about this little in tank refugium? http://www.drsfostersmith.com/Product/Prod_Display.cfm?pcatid=3621&Ntt=refugium&Ntk=All&Ntx=mode+matchallpartial&Np=1&N=2004&Nty=1
The small one on the right. I think it's an ok size for my tank, and I need one in the tank because I have no room to put a hang on one. Did you mention it once before, that if I had a refugium I wouldn't have to keep the bio-wheel filter? I was just thinking after I got off the phone with you, about whether or not I wanted to put the macroalgae in the main display or try this little ref. Do you think that this is a good idea?
|
|
75gal reef /sump/ref 150MH 2 96w CF
Perhaps I would be better at basket weaving. . . at least it would be cheaper!
|
|
Is there a glass lid on the tank?