Utah Reefs Homepage
  New Posts New Posts RSS Feed - Suggestions for a newbie
  FAQ FAQ  Forum Search   Events   Register Register  Login Login

Suggestions for a newbie

 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
Author
Spuma View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 17 2003
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Topic: Suggestions for a newbie
    Posted: November 18 2003 at 11:54pm

Just purchased a 120 gallon tank with a pump and bioballs.  I'm interested in starting this hobby, it's always eluded me in the past and I've finally got the courage to attempt it...  I've gone to some of the pet stores and have been bombarded with extremely high prices for just about everything.  Need some suggestions from you experts on how to proceed and what I should look out for.

Like I said... I have an empty tank with a pump.... what now??  Thanks! 

Back to Top
KeoDog View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 18 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 884
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 5:53am
The first thing to do is plan what you are going to have in it. Will it be fish only or do you plan on corals. If corals what kind? This will determine what type of lights you need. I buy all my supplies on line. You can save about 50% of what you pay in the pet stores. Does your tank have a built in overflow (reef ready)? Do you have a wetdry filter that the bioballs go in? Supply as much info as you can so we can get you going in the right direction.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 5:59am
Looking at other tanks is perhaps one of the best ways to figure out how you want to do your own.
This site has:
1) a Gallery with descriptions of setups
2) a Tank of the Month section, again with pics and descriptions
3) a newsletter called the Sea Star Online which has informative articles that hobbyists ought to know
4) a "slough" (pronounced slew) of hobbyists that may also be local WMAS club members who are probably willing to have another WMAS Member (or prospective member) visit their home, see their tank and learn.

There is also a draft (recently updated) document called WMAS Reefkeeping Guidlines that may help. If you want a copy, simply email your request to me by clicking here [email protected]
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
rstruhs View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 18 2003
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1003
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstruhs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 6:42am

Spuma,

If you listen to the advice of Mark, Adam, Jon, Kevin, etc., (The senior members) you will learn a LOT!Smile  They have helped me more than I can say.  I have only been in the hobby for about 5 months and am still constantly learning.  Come to the club meeting so you can put a face with the names.  And above all, be patient, this hobby requires a lot of patience, however, the rewards are worth it!

Good luck and welcome!

Back to Top
rstruhs View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: October 18 2003
Location: Japan
Status: Offline
Points: 1003
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote rstruhs Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 6:42am

Keodog,

Care to mention where you buy online?

Back to Top
Suzy View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 9:04am
Trade the bioballs for an ultimate sump!!
Back to Top
Crazy Tarzan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2003
Location: Riverton, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 1681
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazy Tarzan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 9:30am
Consider plumbing in a refugium/sump.  I wish I would have known about them before I started mine....  and be ready to spend some $$, and maybe have a lot of diy or more $$$.
Back to Top
Ryan Willden View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: July 12 2002
Location: Canada
Status: Offline
Points: 775
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Ryan Willden Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 10:40am
My advice is don't go overboard on ading new fish every day/week. Add new livestock slowly after you've researched each one very carefully. It will save you a ton of money, fishes lives, and keep you in the hobby much longer.
Back to Top
KeoDog View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 18 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 884
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 11:07am
Here are some of the stores I frequent most. If you find the cheapest price and Big Als carry it, they will match the price plus give you an extra 5% off. Each place is cheaper on different items and it can vary a lot. So if you want to save money do a lot of price comparissons.
http://www.hellolights.com/
http://www.aquatictech.com
http://www.bigalsonline.com
http://www.championlighting.com
http://www.fishsupply.com
http://www.petsolutions.com
http://www.drsfostersmith.com/
http://www.premiumaquatics.com
http://www.thatpetplace.com
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
Back to Top
reefnut View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: February 19 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 232
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote reefnut Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 11:16am
www.reefcentral.com has an endless supply of information!
Back to Top
Will Spencer View Drop Down
Admin Group
Admin Group
Avatar

Joined: September 04 2003
Location: West Jordan
Status: Offline
Points: 6799
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Will Spencer Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 19 2003 at 10:22pm

Spuma, WELCOME, it's good to see you here.  I have a hunch I know where your tank came from so I will try to help.

Having recently set up a tank from about the same stage as your's and on a limited budget, I will tell you what I did.  I've heard from several people, (No one on this board however,) that you should not set up a salt water tank unless you are prepared to spend tons of $$$ right now.  I see things a little differently.

I started with the following:

-150 gallon tank with stand and hood.

-50 Gallon Sump (came with the tank.)

-90 lbs araganite sand (Cost $100 ish)

-75 lbs of Lace Rock. (I don't recommend this at all, but it came with the tank and had been in it for 8-12 years.) 

-50 lbs of Live Rock. (Get this if your doing a reef tank.) Start small as it is expensive and can be added as time goes on, but the more the better. (up to about 150 or so lbs.) However, a friend of mine bemoans having gotten all her rock at initial set-up as there is no room for later additions with corals.  I should also add here, (so I don't here from Mark about forgeting it,) that the stuff we call Utah Araganite has worked very well for many of us although others are not sold on it.  Check out this thread for more info: http://www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=1114& KW=utah+rock

-Lighting. (Mine came with 2-55 Watt Power Compacts.  Metal Halide would be better, but are very expensive.  The tank needs some light, but you do not have to start out with expensive lighting.  However, keep in mind that you can not grow as many types of corals with "cheap" lighting.  The way I see it lighting can always be upgraded in the future.

This was my initial set-up.  I spent about $200 setting it up to begin with.  over the last 6 months or so I have added more live sand, live rock and 4 new 65 Watt PC Lights and moon lights.  This was done slowly as I was able to afford it.  Also a good bet is to keep an eye on the Buy/Sell/Trade topic on this board where I have aquired several items at much better prices than new.

Also come to our meetings and get to know people.  Most of the corals I have now came from the coral cutting seminar.  There will be another in January.

Good luck with your aquarium.  IME everyone here would be more than happy to share their knowledge with you as they have with me.



Edited by wsinbad1
Back to Top
Spuma View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 17 2003
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 1:01am

Thank you for all your comments...  Wow 10 replies in one day!!  I wish I had that many response to my comments in the Flash MX forum!!

Well... I do have lots of patience and not a lot of $$, so I have no problems waiting months before I put my first fish in the tank.  I consider myself to be more of a DIY type of person.  I just figure that's part of the hobby!

My plans with the tank right now is to start very simple.  Since coral requires 'big lights' and have other requirement that I'm not too clear on just yet,  I'd rather stick with a fish only tank, but leave my options open to expand my tank to include coral down the line.

Sump...  is this the pump that pushes the H2O back into the tank?  The bioballs that came with the tank look kind of nasty... can I take those out and hose them down or something...

I'm trying to get the parts I'll need to complete the tank.  I don't want anything fancy, just the necessary stuff.  Heater... will my fresh H2O heater work with this new tank...  what size should the heater be for 120 gallon?  I've been reading a lot about these protein skimmers...  something I need right now?

Sand is something I know I'll need, I've heard that there are two kinds of sand... the stuff with bio organisms inside it and the other that has no living matter.  Can you mix this stuff so you don't have to purchase all live sand in one shot?  Won't the microrganisms spread and grow over time?  Just curious...  but I expect problems with bacteria, can you use real sand that you might have picked up off the beach? 

Back to Top
Spuma View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: November 17 2003
Location: Ogden
Status: Offline
Points: 89
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Spuma Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 1:24am

I'm looking at this type of sand on eBay...  (I've got no clue about sand...  It all looks the same too me!)

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=23608 96310&category=46308

Is this the type of sand I need, is this price reasonable?  How much of it would I need?  Shipment of this would be very expensive, but I'd pick it up myself...  airline employee perk!

Back to Top
KeoDog View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 18 2002
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 884
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote KeoDog Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 5:45am
What I did for sand in my 300g was collect the Utah oolitc sand out by Stansbury Island and put it on the bottom then purchesed 50lb of sand from Bird World for $48 and put it on top. The look is very nice. I am using about 1 1/2 inches.
Kevin Kunz (Sandy, UT)
300g reef

"A trade by which one gains and the other loses is a fraud."   Ayn Rand
Back to Top
Crazy Tarzan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2003
Location: Riverton, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 1681
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazy Tarzan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 6:37am
If you are going to use live rock in your tank you don't necessarily need to have live sand.  I would try getting some of the utah sand since the price is extremley reasonable (free), and then putting a layer of something bigger on it (this is per recomendations I have recieved here, and didn't know about 'til too late).  Also you can have someone with an established tank trade you a few cups of live sand and jumpstart things.  Do a search on this site for sumps/refugiums and you can find a bit of info.  I also had to slowly upgrade lights on my tank...   As for the heater, someone here will remember how many watts per gallon you need to have.  Protien skimmers are one of those fun discussions, but lots of people have them.
Back to Top
Suzy View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: January 03 2003
Status: Offline
Points: 7377
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Suzy Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 6:50am
Remember your pumps and lights will add heat, the heater you
have might be fine. I unplugged our heater a couple of years
ago.The difference between saltwater vs freshwater equipment is
saltwater can have no exposed metal parts......

A sump is box underneath the tank, where you can add a reverse
daylight refugia, another sand bed, a sponge filter, house your
skimmer,etc. The bioballs you have can hold beneficial bacteria, but
sand can hold a ton more in less space. You can see a pic of ours in
the gallery....I'm building a new one for our tank wall in the
basement. Look for another thread where everybody is giving me
ideas! Search "ultimate"....
Back to Top
Mark Peterson View Drop Down
Paid Member
Paid Member
Avatar

Joined: June 19 2002
Location: Murray
Status: Offline
Points: 21436
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Mark Peterson Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 8:35am
A "few" comments:

The idea that you have to wait months to put your first fish in the tank is an antiquated one you probably will hear a thousand more times before you add the first fish.

Not all coral requires "big lights" My tank pictured in the gallery looks great and the lights are just normal output (NO) fluorescent. You can buy them at a hardware store as "shop lights" for about $10. The NO tubes themselves are also not expensive.

Bioballs have become less necessary but still perform a useful function. Wash them completely and reuse. If you look at creating a refugia (a place to grow algae that filters the tank) in the sump, then the bioballs can be discarded.

The heater if it's submersible will be fine. If it's not high enough wattage, it will simply be on longer. No problem in the short run. As a guess, if the heating element portion of the heater is roughly 5 inches or longer, it's probably sufficient.

Protien Skimmer not needed (only suggested) for the first year, or never needed depending on the trype of coral you want to keep and whether or not you use a refugia.

You seem to have the correct understanding of bacteria. The bacteria and other organisms that live in the Live Sand (LS) is essentially half of the tanks filtration "equipment".

Initially balked at but now used extensively in this area is free sand collected from our own place at the bed of the ancient ocean that was Lake Bonneville. This Utah Oolitic Sand not only works as good as any other sand, but will save you some $$.

On top of the Oolitic sand you will need to place some CaribSea aragonite substrate. But don't just throw it all in the tank as soon as you buy it. Take a full bag and trade it for an equal amount of Live Sand (LS) from a friends tank. And there are lots of "fishy" friends here on the forum and in the local club. Also arrange to take the water from a friends tank when they do a water change and use it to initially fill 1/2 to 3/4 of your reef aquarium. If you ask here on the forum and have the containers there are lots of people willing to give you their "old" water.

Hope this helps
Reefkeeping Tips, & quick, easy setup tricks:
www.utahreefs.com/forum/forum_posts.asp?TID=9244
Pay it forward - become a paid WMAS member
Back to Top
Diverdan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: April 18 2003
Location: United States
Status: Offline
Points: 156
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Diverdan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 10:35am
One little suggestion that may save you a lot of headaches in the long run, only put RO water in your tank if possible (RO is reverse osmosis water, the process takes all the "junk" out of the water and makes it pure). You can buy RO water from LFS but it gets kind of expensive. Look on ebay for an RO system, about $100 or so. A tank can be run on tap water, but if you are just starting out RO water will reduce the amount of problem algae you have to deal with.

I would also suggest posting your plans here and we can help you out with suggestions. There are many diffrent ways to succesfully do a tank, so you will get many diffrent opinions.

To get started I would remove the bioballs from the sump, get the tank filled with water and no sand and maybe some dry base rock and get the salinity right.Make sure you understand how the overflow works and the sump and return pump. For instance what happens if the power goes out? A sump should be able to contain all the water that will siphon back down into the sump.
Once you have the tank running with salt water and the heater is working right (able to keep the tank a constant 76 to 80 degrees) add some live rock. I would use dead base rock (utah aragonite or hirocks.com or any other option)and live rock mixed maybe 50/50 or less live rock depending on your budget. Live rock is expensive!
Then add your sand to back fill around the rocks making them more stable. Get live sand from members here, we will be happy to share as Mark suggested. Personally I like a depth of 2 to 3 inches of sand max. You can go really deep (like 6 inches)but that is another debate. I beleive it is not necessary based on my experience.

Next the tank will go through some sort of cycle, there is no need to kill some damsels when cycling the tank. It is mean and crule IMO. Plenty of things will die of your live rock from transport. You can also begin feeding the tank with flakes, eventhough there are no fish. All the other stuff needs to eat (bacteria, "pods" etc.)
Once the tank has cycled you can add fish and corals, and a clean up crew.
The cycle portion may take a few days to a month, depending on what you have added. If you can get used water from another members tank, this should speed things up. Also the live rock depending on how it has been handled may speed things up or slow it down. If at all possible keep it under water. The more it is exposed to air the more stuff will die.

OK so maybe that was not one little suggestion and I should get back to work!!!
Anyways, let us know when you are going to start things out on the tank and I bet you will have volunteers to come to your house and see and help a new tank be "born". You are more than welcome to come see my tank any evening, I am in North Salt Lake. It's a 75 gallon with sump and soft corals, LPS and fish.

To answer your sand questions specifically, yes the "live sand" will grow and spread into the dead sand. Don't buy the live sand in the bags at a LFS (local fish store), trade for it here with members. I would be happy to give an equal amount of my live sand for new aragonite sand.
Sand from the beach is silicate sand, some people have used it successfully in reef tanks. Some people claim it causes algae, I have never used it, so I don't know. The benfit of oolitic and aragonite sand is that it buffers your system and helps mantain the ph as it slowly dissolves. I have only ever used aragonite and have been happy. If I started a new tank today I would mix the Utah Oolitic and aragonite as suggested here. The southdown sand on ebay is the real stuff and works great according to everything I have read. It is very fine and will cloud your tank for days when you start. But as it becomes live it will stay put on the bottom where it should.
If you work for the airlines, maybe just go to a homedepot back east and buy it yourself. It is about $5 for a fifty pound bag. It is not available in the West.

Sorry for the novel, I hope this helps.

Rich "Diverdan"
75 Gallon Reef
15 Gallon Reef
Back to Top
Adam Blundell View Drop Down
Presidency
Presidency
Avatar

Joined: June 24 2002
Location: Davis County
Status: Offline
Points: 18526
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Adam Blundell Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 10:55am

Originally posted by Mark Peterson Mark Peterson wrote:


Bioballs have become less necessary but still perform a useful function.

I had to read this 3 times!  Did Mark really say this????  Wow, I am blown away.  I haven't heard Mark ever say anything good about bioballs.

Adam 

Come to a meeting, they’re fun!
Back to Top
Crazy Tarzan View Drop Down
Guest
Guest
Avatar

Joined: September 12 2003
Location: Riverton, WY
Status: Offline
Points: 1681
Post Options Post Options   Thanks (0) Thanks(0)   Quote Crazy Tarzan Quote  Post ReplyReply Direct Link To This Post Posted: November 20 2003 at 12:34pm
Might want to add the clean up crew as soon as your tank has cycled, and have them start--even if you don't have fish.  Just remember some won't survive on just algea.
Back to Top
 Post Reply Post Reply Page  12>
  Share Topic   

Forum Jump Forum Permissions View Drop Down

Forum Software by Web Wiz Forums® version 12.03
Copyright ©2001-2018 Web Wiz Ltd.

This page was generated in 0.203 seconds.